Most of the above sums it up for me. You could see from the first set he was limping badly, and should never have been out there.

The team/squad on paper is more than capable of challenging in SL, but it is the way the team is setup that makes us look like a NL1 team. Agar is 5 years behind the rest of SL with his tactics, and it is turning a very good squad into no hopers. There are 3 main things for me that need to change [not including replacing Agar with a real tactitian, Steve Foulkes for me] and they are Depth in attack - our halves and strike players keep getting smashed because we start too flat and try and play at the line, and SL defences are too quick and fit for this to be productive.

[2] Numbers in the tackle - all our problems start from being beat at the play the ball - and the easiest way to rectify this is just put more men in the tackle - you get longer to peel away and then defensively you are more solid.

[3] Intensity/ Enthusiasm - everything is half d, and it needs to be done with a lot more urgency. And this would be helped by the two points above becasue the deeper you start, eveything you do is with players going forward, and the more time you have in defence, the quicker you can get off the line.

They are the short term problems, but as above AGAR NEEDS TO GO - and a Foulkes, Kearney, Gould [maybe wishing here] needs to give this Club the direction it needs on the field.

Well regrettably with this stature and his illness he isn't able to tackle. That was probably always the best part of his game , his strength was disproportionate to his size. So he now doesn't tackle well , he's slow ( compare him to say Kevin Brown ) , his passing is at times shocking , he can't kick - never been able to do that other than the occasional short kick behind the line - and he's not an organiser or a general..................................but he is our stand off???? And will by the looks of it be so for the foreseeable future. Doesn't sound good does it?

You're talking to a Rovers troll.

Agreed, It has got to the stage though in my opinion were something has to be done to try and get Horne perfoming like we have seen in the past, although its not his best position he has played as our main pivot before and done a very good job there, in 2004 I think it was he earned a GB 7 shirt, and played there well in 2005 in the challenge cup run and was excellent in our run to the GF in 2006 in this position. He has earned a bit of time and he has had problems out of his control, but its not working with him at the moment and although he looked good against Wigan away he has been just as poor as Thorman was last season. Im not sure what the best action is, possibly taking him out of the team and taking the pressure off and bringing him back in with a bit part role to build some confidence up is something to try.

Or play him when he's fit?