FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > Update on Ground |
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "You are quite right about seller only being interested in price, I agree with that.
However, if this becomes any kind of political football, with the local council having significant input, I stand by my point and we already know that our council leader doesn't give a damn about Wakefield Trinity but, there aren't too many politicians (of any party) that would want to ruffle the feathers of the ethnic community.'"
I don't think they'd get involved in any meaningful way; what value to an ambitious politician to come down on either side? They couldn't care less about a mosque or a RL club in reality - so all they offer are the same pointless social media platitudes we got from some about Newmarket - which sound like they're supporting the project, but actually mean nothing at all.
No politician will show support to a project until there are shovels in the ground - at which point it's a done deal and they can't therefore be criticised for favouring one minority interest group over another.
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| Quote: M62 J30 TRINITY "Well MC has said on Yorkshire Radio Belle Vue has just been granted community value status which is good news for us'"
And what does "community value status" entail? What does it mean to the club?
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| It makes it harder for the owner to sell it for purely commercial purposes and introduces delays to any sale, to allow community groups the opportunity to raise the funds to make the purchase.
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| Quote: JINJER "And what does "community value status" entail? What does it mean to the club?'"
The effect of the listing is that as the Bank of Ireland has decided to sell Belle Vue they must inform the Council of their intention to sell. This then triggers a 6 week moratorium period during which time The Trust decide whether they would like to place a bid. If we do then a 6 months moratorium period is launched. After this time the Bank can sell to anyone they wish. The Bank however may sell to the Trust during this moratorium period.
What it does is give the Trust up to 6 months to agree a purchase of Belle Vue. Something it would not have if Belle Vue had not been listed as an ACV.
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| I thought the bid process was already done and dusted?
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31007_1580947500.jpg EVENTUALLY, WE'LL WIN SOMETHING, ,MAYBE, IF I'M STILL ALIVE THEN:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_31007.jpg |
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| One significant problem for the ground if a mosque is built is that Friday prayers are a focal point of the Muslim week, and there are prayer meetings until late in the evening due to the obligation to pray five times a day. There would be difficulties perhaps in the mosque if the Friday prayers were disrupted by a noisy beer-swilling crowd literally yards away, alongside the parking and congestion issues. It would end Friday games, and commercially they can be quite good. I don't think they could co-exist for those reasons alone. It would also increase the risk of tensions around the ground as people enter and leave, particularly if they are tanked up.
There is no real political advantage for local politicians in throwing weight behind a mosque, other than a councillor in that specific ward (and there would be nothing wrong with that, as that person is elected to represent their interests, which would involve a mosque more than it would a rugby ground catering for people mainly outside that ward), as Wakefield does not have a significant enough muslim population to gain votes from, certainly compared to other West Yorkshire towns and to the potential alienation of quite a few thousand Trinity fans (I work on the assumption that there are many with Trinity sympathies, even though they don't attend games).
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| Quote: Sandal Cat "The effect of the listing is that as the Bank of Ireland has decided to sell Belle Vue they must inform the Council of their intention to sell. This then triggers a 6 week moratorium period during which time The Trust decide whether they would like to place a bid. If we do then a 6 months moratorium period is launched. After this time the Bank can sell to anyone they wish. The Bank however may sell to the Trust during this moratorium period.
What it does is give the Trust up to 6 months to agree a purchase of Belle Vue. Something it would not have if Belle Vue had not been listed as an ACV.'"
This obviously also counts for any other community group as well, not just the trust. If there is more than one then it will come down to who has the fattest wallet.
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| Quote: Slugger McBatt "One significant problem for the ground if a mosque is built is that Friday prayers are a focal point of the Muslim week, and there are prayer meetings until late in the evening due to the obligation to pray five times a day. There would be difficulties perhaps in the mosque if the Friday prayers were disrupted by a noisy beer-swilling crowd literally yards away, alongside the parking and congestion issues. It would end Friday games, and commercially they can be quite good. I don't think they could co-exist for those reasons alone. It would also increase the risk of tensions around the ground as people enter and leave, particularly if they are tanked up.
'"
Why would it end Friday games? Why not say that the building of a Mosque would end Rugby at Belle Vue.
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| Quote: Sacred Cow "This obviously also counts for any other community group as well, not just the trust. If there is more than one then it will come down to who has the fattest wallet.'"
It would apply to any community group but the application to list Belle Vue was made because of its and Wakefield Trinity's value to the local community and I believe that any community group making a bid during the 6 months would have to make the bid on the basis of retaining Belle Vue for its current purpose and retaining Wakefield Trinity. It would defeat the object of the listing if anyone could bid for a change of use on the back of them being a community group.
Also don't forget that anyone bidding for Belle Vue (ACV or not) has to adhere to Condition 38 of the current planning consent for housing which prevents any demolition or development until a stadium has been built at Newmarket. If anyone applies for another use then Condition 38 would be imposed on any consent if it were to be granted.
Just a word of caution. The current owner can request that the Council reviews its decision and if unsuccessful it it can appral the decision but again that all will take time. Also its worth noting that The Kassam Stadium was listed by Oxford Council and the owners fought the listing in the Courts and lost which prompted the Glazers to withdraw their legal challenge to the listing of Old Trafford.
Look on this as a positive step and now the Trust has some time to try and secure a deal.
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| Quote: dboy "I thought the bid process was already done and dusted?'"
Could turn out to be another long drawn out saga ![WHISTLE eusa_whistle.gif](images/smilies//eusa_whistle.gif)
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| Quote: KevW60349 "Could turn out to be another long drawn out saga
Just the same one mate drawn out even more - there's more mileage in this ground saga yet!
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| Quote: Wollo-Wollo-Wollo-Wayoo "Why would it end Friday games? Why not say that the building of a Mosque would end Rugby at Belle Vue.'"
It wouldn't necessarily end rugby at Belle Vue, and certainly a Sunday afternoon wouldn't be much of an issue. The flashpoint would be Friday night games, and it would make it more difficult for parking and other issues. The club would probably decide that it wasn't worth the fight for parking and the risk of racial flashpoints before and after games. Some clubs have caused problems in the past when there has only been Belle Vue to sneer at. Can you imagine how they'd behave if there was a large contingent of muslims leaving Friday prayers at the same time?
This is only hypothetical, of course, but the building of a mosque would present more difficulties than parking, and for the sake of its own image, the club would have to be sensitive to it, And don't worry about the cost of the mosque. The local muslim community would raise it without a problem.
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| Taxi fares would probably go up in the town.
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| If as suggested by some on the forum why would a council who are behind the development of a mosque allow this to happen. I would think that their involvement was overstated for reasons only known to those that post on here.
I also wonder if it the type of building that is causing some to object so strongly under the umbrella of their love for the club. I guess they didn't mind when the current buildings were put in place.
We have been given every opportunity to buy both the ground and surrounding areas and if we fail then it is our own faults. We will have been given time to match any larger offer which is not available to most developers therefore if we do not match it then once again it will be down to our own shortcomings.
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| Quote: Sandal Cat "It would apply to any community group but the application to list Belle Vue was made because of its and Wakefield Trinity's value to the local community and I believe that any community group making a bid during the 6 months would have to make the bid on the basis of retaining Belle Vue for its current purpose and retaining Wakefield Trinity. It would defeat the object of the listing if anyone could bid for a change of use on the back of them being a community group.
Also don't forget that anyone bidding for Belle Vue (ACV or not) has to adhere to Condition 38 of the current planning consent for housing which prevents any demolition or development until a stadium has been built at Newmarket. If anyone applies for another use then Condition 38 would be imposed on any consent if it were to be granted.
Just a word of caution. The current owner can request that the Council reviews its decision and if unsuccessful it it can appral the decision but again that all will take time. Also its worth noting that The Kassam Stadium was listed by Oxford Council and the owners fought the listing in the Courts and lost which prompted the Glazers to withdraw their legal challenge to the listing of Old Trafford.
Look on this as a positive step and now the Trust has some time to try and secure a deal.'"
Just as a point of note the six months grace is for purely community groups to come up with a bid, what they intend to do with it makes no real disernible difference at this stage as long as it is deemed for community use. A change of use can only be determined to be acceptable or not by the local planning authority once planning permission has been applied for which is likely to be after the bidding process. On the flip side if then any change of use is refused then they may look to sell on again a year down the line, maybe even resulting in a better deal for the trust.
As for condition 38 you are correct and it does offer some security but as a word of caution, the planning for housing has now expired and any new owner would highly likely apply to remove the condition with their new plans. Given the lack of movement on Newmarket for so long since S.O.S. approval and no real sign of it moving forward any time soon it will strengthen their case, especially if there are firm plans for other facilities in the district i.e. the new plans for Clayton Hospital and the Five Towns development in Glasshoughton. Also any termination by the club of the lease and a move out of the area WILL weaken it's case in the eyes of the planning commitee. With no 'immediate requirement' for a like for like Sport Englands opposition could at that point be negated by the new owner providing a patch of community land somewhere relatively nearby for recreational purposes. It is far from cut and dried which way it would go.
I don't really see the current owner appealing the decision as given the timescales and the original bidding deadline having already passed then it wouldn't really serve a great deal of purpose. Hopefully the trust bid is the winning one and all this is rendered unnecessary but there is likely more twists in the saga yet.
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