I know all that mate, but you know when it's still raw and you're trying to find a reason to turn up on Sunday, you need some hope to cling on to, not cold hard facts!

This

Tricky don't punish yourself mate ,I've pointed out mathers lack of courage since he's been at the club people on here have defended him I must say consistently , but and I say this with respect people who do can't have ever been involved with the physicalities of the game the mans a showman he might fool some with his gestures arms flying about as if he's organising things he don't fool me

I bet you stand in the queue at Tesco and hurl abuse at the checkout guy who isn't working as fast as you think he should... Or packing the carrier in the most efficient way?

Or are you the supervisor who screams at the labourer for not moving bricks fast enough...?


Did you stand by your wife during the birth of your children and criticise for her not putting enough effort into it?


Why not? If you think about it I am sure you have every right to see it that way... Are you consistent in the way you manifest your attitudes into behaviour?

I accuse you of not calling this fairly... You are the victim of 'group think' and unable to go against the opinions and attitudes of your peer group... You have created a mind set which would be embarrassing for you to change... Even if you wanted to...


See a therapist before this condition starts to pop up in other areas of your life...


Or maybe you are like the rest of us who use our passion for sport as a way to get rid of our excess testosterone, to purge our bodies of the stresses of life... That's fine... Just don't make personal!

That's called abuse..

I am quite capable of forming my own opinion like I did when I concluded that glover and Elston were making a mess of things, got shot down along with a few others but stuck to my line of thought. Same as I will do here. The problem in this day and age is everything is too PC and there's little in the way of accountability,

Anyone who went yesterday and was paying attention would have noticed Mathers abject performance and him ducking out of making tackles.

I am being criticised for being one of those who is not doing what people believe a supporter should be doing. I have criticised mathers for not doing what a pro RL player should be doing. What's the difference?

Just replacing Mathers and Lyne would save us 12 - 18 pts a game conceded, I'm convincedof it. Of course Agar loves them like his sons so that won't happen...and meanwhile Mariano...face don't fit = out = what we knew fo Hull fans before he got here. Of all the things Glover's regime got wrong, the appointment of Richad Agar, an unproven SL coach with no record to speak of, to replace a man who made us a respected team, one who nobody rested easy playing, was top of the list. If there is any way out of the situation, any leeway in his contract that we can afford to sack him, then for God's sake do it

They don't like it mate when you speak the truth or criticise. I was not at Wigan but you are not telling me anything I haven't seen before. I have seen Mathers bottle tackles. As for catching a bomb, I'g give my gran, were she alive, an evens chance of doing as well. I am bored of talking about Lyne. Sykes is getting past his used before date. He isn't really a stand off and seems to not function as well as he used to at centr..as for his goal kicking, he shouldn't take another, he is hopeless. But don't be ngative...it's only 3 games in...blah blah blah blah blah..we'v had 2 seasons and 3 matches of largely the worst RL we have played in a long time and, I'm sorry happy clappies, some of us have more than had out fill

I agree PC concepts have been taken too far, like many other methodologies created to achieve parity and justice there are those who have missused and corrupted the intent. I agree that accountability is blurred (i have never known a time where it wasnt) but that should not be a shield for the blame and litigation culture that pervades society todey...

What you miss in your argument is respect... where is that...? in all its faces...

I am sure left at that, you would say that respect has to be earned... and I would retort that it is impossible to earn the respect of those who have prejudice against you.

All have the right to comment, believe something and be vocal but no one has the right to bear prejudice.

(p.s. that was fun to write, quite cathartic!!)

I don't believe I am prejudiced against mathers as if he did something worthy of praise I would give it to him. However, in a season where we can't afford any passengers, imo he does not do enough to merit a place in the team.

To show I am not prejudiced against him, I also questioned whether Lyne had the bottle required to be a pro RL player.

I had to read it twice to understand that actually what you are writing has little to do with the original post unless of course you assume it was made due to prejudice rather than reason. I am not saying you are wrong because I feel certain players receive excessive criticism not because of how they play but who they are and how over time this becomes to some the way it should be. It is in a lesser form the reincarnation of the theory portrayed in the novel 1984. The doctoring of free speech is replaced by it is Fox for example therefore he is at fault they fail to see the effort he puts in over the course of the game, rather they focus on he cannot catch the high ball despite on many occasions last season not having any protection seen at other clubs.
I suppose this could be prejudice not resulting from any one event but due to the premise of the protection of the group rather than the individual "to quote Spock the needs of the many out way the needs of the one" so you could say I have disproved my own theory.

Keep Kear was the option. Time for a change we were told. Well, change is great if you have a viable option. I don't know how much Kear wanted to go. We were sold the 'by mutual agreement' line. Frankly, I feel he was pushed out. It was a big mistake. I find it interesting that quite a lot of the people on here who sneer at Kear's record and how we used to play are often those who plead for more time for Agar and make excuse after excuse for him. Kear had players sold from under him too. Kear had back room troubles too; most coaches at Wakefield have. We had some bad perfomances at times under Kear, I know that, but, on average, we were a far more solid and dependable, professional unit, pound for pound spent in my humble opinion..and so many of those who say support support support, when something is plainly very wrong with the way that team is being run, have no respect for Kear's achievements and overlook the fact, in my opinion, that we would have been a better place now if he had stayed. We chucked him out like an old boot. I for one will always be grateful for what he achieved and wish to God we had him back, because this buffoon doesn't know a Rugby League player from a hairdresser, which frankly, Lyne and Mathers would be better suited at

now this is what forum dabate should be about...

Theoretical hypothesis about stuff which means nothing, will change nothing but stretches the mind and challenges mental models...

PS I am accusing noone of prejudice I just ask for the consideration that it might be there, even subconciously.

real story or parable.

My youngest son (aged 17) is in his final year at school... it is a very mixed school with the full range of immigrants and includes an Indiginous Australian Scholorship scheme.

He was in recess recently when he overheard a recent male immigrant student from the Philipines (of the same age)becoming verbal and abusive against a Downs Syndrome student and Downs sufferers in general... My son told him to stop!

At that point he turned his aggression on my son and became physically as well as verbally abusive. My son is a student of Judo, Ju Jitsu, Karate an ex RL player a weightlifter and State level rower... he took the agressor to task and made sure he was aware of the error of his ways... (he is trained to use minimum force to subdue his opponent so the guy came to no harm) during the spat my son was accused of a racially motivated attack based on prejudice... although this was not followed up due to the high number of witnesses.

So this young man accused someone who had challenged his own prdjudice by accusing his challenger of being predjudice themseleves.

(I think parables are meant to have an open ending and I am not sure this is open enough... but...)

I await Mopsey's response