Never said they were there for the taking, I said most beatable in terms of line up - didn't expect a win but did expect a lot better performance. I mean what will Wigan do to us at full strength 60 -20?

I didn't see anything to say he was dropped. Manfredi has been pushing for game time recently anyway.
I assumed Charnley was rested rather than dropped.

Thanks Phil Clarke; I think you'll find that you make your own luck - the interception didn't just land in his hands and both tries still needed scoring.

Jesus - give us a bit of hope!

And if it was the other way round,it would have been the best thing since sliced bread.....respect the ball at all times you should know that...shouldn't you

As one of those you are possibly referring to, I will support the players when I see effort worthy of that support and did support those players who put the effort in. However, these are pro RL players and some of the errors and lack of effort served up was embarrassing. I don't subscribe to blindly supporting people that was the problem with glover and Elston anyone who questioned what they were doing off the field was shot down and look how that turned out.

You will see on another thread that I did actually suggest criticising players in this key season maybe counter productive, but I can't help saying it how I see it and mathers yesterday seemed to be trying to avoid making tackles which should be simply not acceptable to anyone connected with the club.

I know all that mate, but you know when it's still raw and you're trying to find a reason to turn up on Sunday, you need some hope to cling on to, not cold hard facts!

This

Tricky don't punish yourself mate ,I've pointed out mathers lack of courage since he's been at the club people on here have defended him I must say consistently , but and I say this with respect people who do can't have ever been involved with the physicalities of the game the mans a showman he might fool some with his gestures arms flying about as if he's organising things he don't fool me

I bet you stand in the queue at Tesco and hurl abuse at the checkout guy who isn't working as fast as you think he should... Or packing the carrier in the most efficient way?

Or are you the supervisor who screams at the labourer for not moving bricks fast enough...?


Did you stand by your wife during the birth of your children and criticise for her not putting enough effort into it?


Why not? If you think about it I am sure you have every right to see it that way... Are you consistent in the way you manifest your attitudes into behaviour?

I accuse you of not calling this fairly... You are the victim of 'group think' and unable to go against the opinions and attitudes of your peer group... You have created a mind set which would be embarrassing for you to change... Even if you wanted to...


See a therapist before this condition starts to pop up in other areas of your life...


Or maybe you are like the rest of us who use our passion for sport as a way to get rid of our excess testosterone, to purge our bodies of the stresses of life... That's fine... Just don't make personal!

That's called abuse..

I am quite capable of forming my own opinion like I did when I concluded that glover and Elston were making a mess of things, got shot down along with a few others but stuck to my line of thought. Same as I will do here. The problem in this day and age is everything is too PC and there's little in the way of accountability,

Anyone who went yesterday and was paying attention would have noticed Mathers abject performance and him ducking out of making tackles.

I am being criticised for being one of those who is not doing what people believe a supporter should be doing. I have criticised mathers for not doing what a pro RL player should be doing. What's the difference?

Just replacing Mathers and Lyne would save us 12 - 18 pts a game conceded, I'm convincedof it. Of course Agar loves them like his sons so that won't happen...and meanwhile Mariano...face don't fit = out = what we knew fo Hull fans before he got here. Of all the things Glover's regime got wrong, the appointment of Richad Agar, an unproven SL coach with no record to speak of, to replace a man who made us a respected team, one who nobody rested easy playing, was top of the list. If there is any way out of the situation, any leeway in his contract that we can afford to sack him, then for God's sake do it

They don't like it mate when you speak the truth or criticise. I was not at Wigan but you are not telling me anything I haven't seen before. I have seen Mathers bottle tackles. As for catching a bomb, I'g give my gran, were she alive, an evens chance of doing as well. I am bored of talking about Lyne. Sykes is getting past his used before date. He isn't really a stand off and seems to not function as well as he used to at centr..as for his goal kicking, he shouldn't take another, he is hopeless. But don't be ngative...it's only 3 games in...blah blah blah blah blah..we'v had 2 seasons and 3 matches of largely the worst RL we have played in a long time and, I'm sorry happy clappies, some of us have more than had out fill