FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > Update On Stadium |
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| Quote: Bull Mania "
I would move to Timbuktu before ground share with Cas. NO!
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10363_1334937642.jpg SUPPORT SWAG...:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10363.jpg |
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| Quote: bren2k "Wow - it doesn't take much for the miserabilists to come out in force!
Does anyone remember Carter's brinkmanship with BV last year, to force the BoI's hand? I can't see this being anything other than a similar exercise - and I expect that there are things going on in the background that are attached to it, not least the potential threat of legal action and a whole lot of embarrassment, negative PR and heavy costs, for the other parties involved.
I wouldn't be planning your trips to Newcastle just yet.'"
At last!
How many pages - it's called upping the anti, it's risky but something dramatic was needed to kick the issue forward.
It's very scary, but if people want to help the club start writing to the Wakefield Express shaming the council. Contact below.
Editor
John Kenealy
Email:editorial@wakefieldexpress.co.uk
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| I would reserve judgement re. share with Castleford until the 'terms ' of any such venture were known. Better have an open mind that just see Trinity 'written off'.
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| Quote: vastman "
It's very scary, but if people want to help the club start writing to the Wakefield Express shaming the council. Contact below.
Editor
John Kenealy
Email
Wholeheartedly agree with this bit.
Nothing may come of it but, it just might. At least it's doing something constructive.
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| Quote: bren2k "In my experience, when it comes to planning disputes, it's not necessarily about 'offences' in the traditional, legal sense; we're talking here about the fine details of planning law, and potentially, misconduct in public office type stuff. Hardly the stuff of exciting legal dramas, but serious enough to get the attention of respondents - because defending such action costs time, money and reputation.
I'm only speculating here - I have no inside knowledge of this case - but I have been involved in planning disputes on a number of occasions; I watched a specialist planning lawyer tear the representatives of a provincial Council to pieces recently, such that they withdrew part way through and accepted that they had an urgent need to redraft all of their planning guidance and documentation as an urgent matter.
Who knows - I could be totally wrong and this could be MC having a tantrum; but I doubt it very much.'"
Such a shame it has come to this, I was really hoping the Belle Vue solution was the one. That said if the club wanted to relocate to Bedfordshire then they'd have one supporter here!
As I put on one of the other recent threads planning law is one of the most complicated laws out there and you are correct, sometimes councils get it wrong and decisions do get overturned. But those very same technicalities that can do that can also backfire and confirm a planning departments decision. I have seen on more than one occasion a lawyer claiming a cast iron case or a sure-fire win leave beaten with their tail between their legs as the endless technicalities backed the council up. It will be a potentially costly exercise, whatever the trust have been told it will cost, add at least 50% and keep it as a slush fund, chances are you'll need it as it drags on. The main winners here will be the legal teams, they will be the one that trouser the money.
Best case scenario that I can see is the Newcold build gets put back into the unilateral undertaking and counts towards the trigger point, although that won't solve a great deal in the long run. It will mean the development has been started so the permission deadline becomes irrelevent, but that also then removes any claim to just land banking by the developer moving forward which is something the government are wanting to crack down on. As for claims of deliberate misconduct then that is very hard to prove. what would be more likely is they would be deemed to have mis-interpreted the rules and regulations, which leads to a much lesser penalty and less damage to a reputation.
Without the full facts it's impossible to know how it would plan out but more challenges fail than are successful so if anybody has been told a win is a shoe-in, it's highly likely to be wrong, there is no such thing in this area. Just an awful lot of legal arguing over fine detail to come and then fingers crossed they did actuaally get it wrong. I would always say avoid going to court if at all possible, it is a big risk. But I have to agree with those that say it likely still won't lead to a stadium being built by Yorkcourt, if they ever had any intention of doing that it would be there by now. It might stop them making a bit of extra money money out of the site at a guess and it would certainly cause the odious toad that is Peter Box to get his knickers in a twist which would be nice as i can't stand the man but that is about it. I wish everybody involved good luck but please consider all options wisely as it really is a legal minefield.
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| Quote: sixtogo "But I have to agree with those that say it likely still won't lead to a stadium being built by Yorkcourt, if they ever had any intention of doing that it would be there by now. It might stop them making a bit of extra money money out of the site'"
Maybe that's not the aim?
Anyone sensible would have completely given up on Newmarket by now and instead, would be focusing all their energy on something much more realistic and achievable - such as, for example, the redevelopment of BV.
So - if there is a developer on board with plans for the commercial possibilities of BV, and an outgoing developer who has a large and troublesome planning condition stopping him making money on a much bigger industrial site - maybe the right thing to do is to try to leverage a contribution towards that redevelopment from the outgoing developer, so you can take a seat at the table with the new developer with a much stronger offer i.e cash money?
Just speculation - but that would be a win of sorts all round wouldn't it? YC get rid of the annoying fly in the ointment that is WT by paying them much less than the cost of a new stadium; WMDC don't have to waste any more time and money defending their actions, or lack of, around the community facilities; and 88M get a much more equitable arrangement around the BV site - i.e they don't have to pay for everything.
Sometimes the threat of legal action is sufficient motivation for all parties to find a way to move forwards.
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| Quote: bren2k "YC get rid of the annoying fly in the ointment that is WT '"
By that logic, don't 88M achieve the same thing by watching Trinity voluntarily walk away without having to do anything for them? Allowing them to do whatever they originally intended before they got caught up in the horrifying mess that we are in. By the sounds of it, the guy at 88M is a very shrewd business man, he doesn't need all this does he.
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47943_1488655163.jpg http://flightsandfrustration.com/
It is "Fifita" not "Fafita"
If you don't know the difference between "there", "their" and "they're" I might get annoyed.
Sharing First World problems so you can get it right first time.
Millionaires wanted. Apply here --- Wakefield Trinity:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_47943.jpg |
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| Quote: Trinity1315 "I would move to Timbuktu before ground share with Cas. NO!'"
To add some balance with a counter argument, I have no issue with us relocating to Cas if it means the survival of Trinity, plus the team being located somewhere I can access relatively easily to make as many home games as possible. (I don't have an anti-Cas emotion and from my perspective the future of Trinity overrides an "own stadium" sentiment.)
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simpsons/simp006.gif :simpsons/simp006.gif |
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| Quote: vastman "At last!
How many pages - it's called upping the anti, it's risky but something dramatic was needed to kick the issue forward.
It's very scary, but if people want to help the club start writing to the Wakefield Express shaming the council. Contact below.
Editor
John Kenealy
Email
There is little doubt that MC is upping the ante.
However, serving notice on your home is, indeed, as far as one can go and IF he fails in forcing the hand of WMDC, Yorkcourt or new developer at BV, what then ?
Regarding the Wakefield Express, I'm not sure how favourably they view Trinity when compared to Box, who seems to have his ugly mug in the paper every week.
You get the impression that the Express either cant or dont want to take issue with this or, surely they would have been all over this before ?
As an open question and probably directed towards TRB or MC, is there anything that the fans can do to help (other than winning the Euro Millions and writing to the Express).
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| Well posted wildshot.I just cannot comprehend why people would rather see the club 'die' than share with Cas'. Better to give it a go there rather than just cease to exist.
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "There is little doubt that MC is upping the ante.
However, serving notice on your home is, indeed, as far as one can go and IF he fails in forcing the hand of WMDC, Yorkcourt or new developer at BV, what then ?
Regarding the Wakefield Express, I'm not sure how favourably they view Trinity when compared to Box, who seems to have his ugly mug in the paper every week.
You get the impression that the Express either cant or dont want to take issue with this or, surely they would have been all over this before ?
As an open question and probably directed towards TRB or MC, is there anything that the fans can do to help (other than winning the Euro Millions and writing to the Express).'"
You may be right but as the other option seems to be a brick through Box front window it's the best I have.
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| Quote: thebeagle "Well posted wildshot.I just cannot comprehend why people would rather see the club 'die' than share with Cas'. Better to give it a go there rather than just cease to exist.'"
its like 8 miles away from bell vue. its nearly as far to the proposed newmarket site. i'm a leeds fan and travel 25 miles from Knottingingley ever week and allways have done.
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22/03/2013
Get LEIGH outta wigan: |
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| Quote: thebeagle "Well posted wildshot.I just cannot comprehend why people would rather see the club 'die' than share with Cas'. Better to give it a go there rather than just cease to exist.'"
So is Castleford stadium garrenteed now?, they seem to have been pouring concrete for 3years now
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| Quote: rollin thunder "its like 8 miles away from bell vue. its nearly as far to the proposed newmarket site. i'm a leeds fan and travel 25 miles from Knottingingley ever week and allways have done.'"
Apart from the fact that you are a Leeds fan in Knottingley (shame on you for not supporting your local team), perhaps you should think about the party politics that have been going on with both developments over the years and what appears to be some kind of forced merger before spouting such nonsense.
A shared ground would need to be 50/50 in capital/ownership and would need to be equidistance between Wakefield and Castleford for it to have any chance of working.
Normanton would be the right place but that, just isnt going to happen.
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| Quote: bren2k "Maybe that's not the aim?
Anyone sensible would have completely given up on Newmarket by now and instead, would be focusing all their energy on something much more realistic and achievable - such as, for example, the redevelopment of BV.
So - if there is a developer on board with plans for the commercial possibilities of BV, and an outgoing developer who has a large and troublesome planning condition stopping him making money on a much bigger industrial site - maybe the right thing to do is to try to leverage a contribution towards that redevelopment from the outgoing developer, so you can take a seat at the table with the new developer with a much stronger offer i.e cash money?
Just speculation - but that would be a win of sorts all round wouldn't it? YC get rid of the annoying fly in the ointment that is WT by paying them much less than the cost of a new stadium; WMDC don't have to waste any more time and money defending their actions, or lack of, around the community facilities; and 88M get a much more equitable arrangement around the BV site - i.e they don't have to pay for everything.
Sometimes the threat of legal action is sufficient motivation for all parties to find a way to move forwards.'"
Personally i always thought that was the best course of action as i've never liked the Newmarket location but i'm pretty sure we've tried heading down that path and ultimately found a dead end there as well. I get the feeling all the trust and hope has gone between not only the council and Yorkcourt but also now 88m.
Quoting MC again in league weekly today he says ' We have given notice to quit and that has been aknowledged and accepted. Whatever happens to Belle Vue i've no idea. It's nothing really to do with us.' He also says when asked if there is any chance the decision could be reversed before the end of the season 'Not in my eyes', and is fed up of 'people making promises that are not kept'. if he could turn back the clock 6 months he would have gone to Dewsbury. He certainly comes accross as sick to the back teeth of it all and it is 'debatable' whether they'll ever be a route back into Wakefield. He is certainly cranking up the pressure and maybe it is a last hope that it spurs the powers that be into action but i also feel he has just thought enough is enough, to hell with you we are off. And i wouldn't be surprised if the first thing 88m do once we move out and taken what is ours is look to flatten the place. Sad times.
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