Give over, when we signed Mellors he was anything but mid level and folk were wetting themselves - obviously you were not having the gift of hindsight and all.

As for top drawer you mean reputation - which is a terrible way to sign players imho.

I can write you a huge list of "top drawer" overseas players from the last 30 years who have done sod all. I'll give you an equally long list of misfits, no marks, has beens and will never make it's who've added hugely to our game.

If there are obstacles in the way of young British players I want them removed for fairness. However I still want the best for the club and I don't really care where they come from. I'm also fully aware of issues regarding the development of the game and British players but I fear that goes way deeper than SL recruitment policy.

Sadly the biggest list of failed players I can give you is that of local Wakey lads who got a chance at the club and failed to deliver - most of whom now just about manage to hold down a Championship spot. The biggest thing holding British youngsters back is a lack of REAL ambition, something mirrored in society. Overseas players time and time again work harder and learn quicker.

Again, at the risk of digressing (maybe we need the thread splitting?) - I can't say I can ever remember noticing people "wetting themselves" over us signing Mellers, but am prepared to be corrected.

I also agree that it is very difficult to determine who will make it and who won't when it comes to imports and agree that several have failed where you would have expected them to succeed and vice versa, but the chance of them coming good is clearly improved the better pedigree player you go for.

We are collectively the first bunch of fans to bemoan other teams when they pinch "our" youngsters (now there certainly was plenty of knickers being twisted when the likes of Ferguson, George and Murphy went to Huddersfield) - and imagine the outcry if Annakin is lured away, yet we must spend a disproportionate percentage of our budget on imports, and failed ones at that. Maybe if the money spent over the last 3 or 4 years or so on the likes of Charlie Leano, Jarred Hickey, Isaac John, Steve Southern, Motu Tony, Ben Jeffries, Ryan Tongia, Frank Winterstein, Korki, Jeremy Smith, Kev Henderson, Tevita Latu etc etc had been spent elsewhere we could have a team that consisted of more homegrown players that we could have kept hold of.

And I know we went into admin during this period and we had to take what we could get our hands on, but the money wasted is potentially frightening and I believe should be spent on trying to develop.

I dare say you could afford to throw a good few contracts to lads in the national league for the brass it costs to uproot an import (and their family in some cases) from the other side of the planet in the (almost blind) hope that they turn out to be another Henry Paul rather than the Alfi Songaro.

This is spot on. Wakefield Trinity have for as long as I can remember had a creditable youth set up but very few of the 'stars' at that level are of the quality to make the big step up. Those that do tend not to stay long with us. Perhaps they have to be at a club like Wigan to maintain their ambition because they seem to churn them out relentlessly.
Gareth Ellis and Ben Westwood were two of relatively recent years, who you could tell immediately were stars in the making. I haven't seen this in Walshaw yet or Wildie for that matter.

So surely the question must be asked why this is the case, how come Leeds, Wigan, Saints etc can produce players year after year after year. We are in the thick of the community game location wise, so why can we not convert these juniors

I don't know the answer, but surely having more budget available for it would help - and one apparently obvious way to free this up is to spend less on taking a punt on importing players half way round the world.

I think the closest we are at the moment to another Ellis or Westwood is young Chris Annakin, and id liken him to Westwood rather than Ellis at the moment as he seems to be a no nonsence forward as a pose to a bit of a utility man with a decent passing game lik Ellis had....Time will tell i guess, but at the moment I think Annakin is showing all the right attributes of a quality forward in years to come.

It would be interesting to see an analysis of what it actually costs to bring a young lad through the scholarship system at WTW, into first grade rugby; it's not straightforward of course, given how many promising young players will fall by the wayside or be lured away to other clubs partway through the process, but it's not impossible. I wonder how it would bear comparison to the cost of finding and importing a journeyman Aussie?

Either way, at this stage, the best we can hope for is a gradual shift over the coming 3-5 years towards a Leeds/Wigan type system, where a conveyor belt of young players is fed into the first team and imports are exclusively proven, top quality players who can provide something that we don't already have. Aside from all the structural and cultural changes required in getting to that point, it will also need money, primarily provided by fans who are prepared to pay the true value of the product by way of ticket prices.

Sorry Vastman, I haven't made 21,00 posts yet but still have a view point worth considering.
I spent 30 years locally in the amateur game at every level and learnt quite a bit. I can tell you how embarrassing it is when your local club fail to show at a sportsman's dinner and you have to speak for an extra 30 minutes with two empty chairs next to you. It is also a shame when you have to call in Sheffield Eagles players (Keith Senior and Wayne Flynn) because your local club had no idea what an umbrella structure with local clubs would give to them. What Tommy says is right, and the final stage of maturing academy players to the next level has obviously been a weakness for 20 years or more.
There must be someone in the UK game, like a Dean Bell, with a knowledge to tap into to create a pathway for development.
Germany now looks like it will hold centre court in soccer for a few years. After World Cup embarrassments, they went back to the drawing board to develop their youth. it has taken 10 years but worked. Like it or not, more overseas players will dilute our national team but that's another thread on its own.

I will try to work out how to use smiles etc next!!

I agree with Vasty.
We cannot play players just because they have come through our system.
As as been posted before there are numerous players now plying their trade at a lower level who certain posters constantly cried out for to be selected.
They were quite frankly, not good enough.
Good players with the right attitude will come through.

I don't follow.

p.s Smilies and such are available in the 'full editor' section - to the right ===>

Manuel,

You are talking about a whole different issue there and one I think most are in total agreement with you. Although I have to point out for every self seeking, thoughtless, ignorant fool in the pro game he/she has their counterpart in the amateur game. Now don't get me wrong, there are a lot of great people giving plenty of time and effort for free on both sides - but both sides have their villains also.

The inability to get both sides of our sport working for the same goal is scandalous and it here IMHO where RU kicks our buts. I honestly believe if all bodies worked together with a common aim we wouldn't be having this argument because the game would be awash with quality British players of all ages - it is nothing like that at the moment.

That said it still doesn't make Wallshaw any more worthy of a place than any other player, domestic or overseas.

For example if TT proves better than Anakin then I want TT - if they are roughly the same I want Anakin - what I absolutely don't want is TT just because he's played NRL even though Anakin is better.

In Anakin I have seen enough to suggest that won't happen - in Molloy based on one and a bit games I've seen enough to suggest he will make it. In Wallshaw I'm yet to see it, I want to see it and I think there is time for it to happen. However to suggest Wallshaw is "way better" than both TT and Molloy was IMHO a massive over statement and frankly destroyed the posters argument which I suspect underneath the hyperbole was fair enough.

Truth is nobody at the Roosters or any but perhaps Newcastle and Brisbane give a damn where there players hail from just so long as they are the best.

Don't think mid-season overseas signings are bad thing, if the contract is until the end of the season, to have a look at the player. The problem is when it's a longer deal and he doesn't turn out to be the player they thought he was. That's the catch 22 situation. With regard to 'overseas' v 'local', Shane McNally signed Julian O'Neil from French RU i think, made all the right noises, drove up from France to complete deal. Was largely disappointing (don't think playing loose forward was his cup of tea) before moving to Widnes. On the other hand there was 'local' Mark Applegarth who had a good season under McNally, McNally gets the chop and Applegarth fades away.Different coaches see different things in players.

Completely agree.

We seem to have the same noises every time we sign an overseas player. This time though I think Agar has got a good track record of knowing who he wants and finding a player to fit so I'll wait & see just what the blokes made of.

And in several cases thats was the clubs failing, not the players.


Thats a miliion miles from the truth jacgues, good players will come through "if " they are mentored properly and "if" thaty have the correct training facilities and coaching staff to help develope them.

Thye need time/money and a whole load of first class training, of course they need the right attitude but that comes with the club showing them that respect and then it works both ways.

Its old stuff but the last batch of juniors imo failed because the club failed them, i know for a fact thats all changed/changing and thank god for that.


I do not know anything about this Taulima guy and i hope he goes well for us but i look forward to the day we don't need to sign players like him.

My mates lad plays age limit rugby at a local RL club. When scholarship games are coming up, my mate gets a text to tell him his club game is cancelled and the players on the scholarship scheme don't have to do PE at school either. This for me is setting the wrong example. They should be encouraged to play and participate for their clubs and school, to keep their feet on the ground and not give them ideas of 'superstardom' before they have even got going.

I have seen enough of Mariano to suggest he would make it!