Because, at Wakefield, we celebrate the mediocre and make them into heroes. Finishing 11th is a 'great achievement' and we'd rather see players who try but are limited, than, you know, any good.

Would you say they are doing that? I'd say they have chosen which teams they want to focus on and the rest can sod off!



Totally disagree, basement battles are often the most exciting ones of the season. I would put money on the ratings for a Sky match that decides who gets relegated being higher than one that decided who came eigth! It's that that keeps the bottom of the table alive!

I don't understand why you are so focused on developing certain teams and making sure that others can't join the party?

11,000 people wanted to know when Wakey played cas in a last day relegation decider. However I agree that if there is no relegation then nobody would be interested.

You will never change the mindset of any 2 nd tier competition that has previously had yearly P and R and clubs in it that have graced the top flight

On your second point , you seem to be forgetting that for every winner , there is a loser , so yes there will always be a bottom club , always ty teams of varying degrees , nobody ever celebrates it , they never have , don't pretend they have

Very true.

One of the biggest problems of licencing is that its nigh on impossible for a club outside of SL to build the sort of club that the RFL (say that they) are looking for. Realisitically clubs should be self sufficient and the wealth of the owner shouldn't decide how big a club is. Most of the clubs in the Championship cannot afford to run both a reserve team and an academy - some clubs can't afford to run one never mind both. Also the lack of interest in the Championship since they took P+R away has affected attendances and therefore income. The only reason why Widnes are so well placed to apply for a licence is because we are lucky to have an owner who is prepared to fund the organisation until we can get into SL. IMO after the next round of licences, no club in the Champioship will achieve the 2,500 average attendance that is seen as good enough to apply for SL. As far as I am aware, in the last 5 years, Widnes are the only current Championship team who has consistantly managed to average over 2,500. Halifax managed it this year, but only after miraculously acheiving nearly 5,000 for their last home game .

I think the point that Smokey is not getting, or refuses to take into account, is that without P+R there is very little hope below SL. Smokey and others say that just winning the Championship should be enough to keep fans and clubs motivated, but as Starbug has already said, for clubs who have been there and done it in the past, fans are just not interested in watching their team stuck in a 2nd rate division. This is only going to lead to lower attendances, smaller clubs and probably more clubs getting into financial difficulty. Transport 10 years into the future - how many more clubs are going to the way of Blackpool? Surely a very weak 2nd tier is no good for the game as a whole. How can pressure be kept on SL clubs to keep improving if the threat of relegation is going to be non-existant. We all know that the top 8 or 9 in SL won't be out of SL for a very very long time and even the bottom 5 or 6 sides know they will only ever be out if/when the RFL want to admit an expansion club again. IMO it shouldn't just be Wakey who are scared of going out of SL this time round, Cas and Salford haven't fulfilled their promises of a new stadium and the less said about Crusaders and Harlequins the better. HOWEVER there just aren't the clubs waiting in the wings to take these clubs places in SL and in the future IMO there will be even less potential clubs applying for SL. Licencing is a good idea, but IMO it needs tweaking to make sure the 2nd tier is kept in touch instead of it become ever more distant from SL.

I personally like the idea of a 2 tier SL - 10 in each division. P+R between the 2 divisions with more money to the top division than the 2nd. The RFL could still operate a licencing system for entry into the 2nd tier and maybe strict minimum standards for entry into the top division.

of course you would, because it suits. Either way, P+R doesnt help the championships. It helps one club in the championship with the potential to damage 2 or 3 more (who chase promotion and fail) and damages 1 club in SL (who gets relegated) and damages 2 or 3 more (who need to focus on the short-term avoidance of relegation over any other problems that club may have)
You would probably be wrong. Besides, how often in SL has the two teams who could have been relegated faced each other? once? twice? more often than not its a massive damp squib with a game 2 or 3 games before the end with the two sides in trouble facing different teams. It isnt often that there is a 'game to decide who goes down'

Im not, all clubs can be developed, and can join the party. The only difference is that im pragmatic enough to understand not all clubs can be in the party at once, and not all clubs can function at the top party without building towards it.

yet, 18'000 people will go watch Leeds and Wigan every week.

How many people went to see the other 13 home matches that year? If we focussed on only getting 1k more to each of those matches, then the club would bring in more than twice as much as they did when the fixture list and chance brought us a very rare relegation decider.

Exactly, so an argument which states we should keep P+R to keep the interest up for lower teams is clearly nonsense

Lower teams in SL , or in the Championship ?

So the post you made earlier is clearly rubbish

which do you think? do you think the teams in the lower end of the championship struggle because a competition they cant win doesnt lead to promotion they arent eligible for?

or do you think it would be the lower SL clubs, the ones it actually affected?

So i post something, you agree with it, i confirm your agreement, you dismiss it as rubbish. Trolly Mctroll-troll is getting older and poorer.

I'm quite frankly getting bored with this now. I've never met someone on here so blinkered as yourself.


It keeps the dream alive.


Care to back up your blinkered views?


You clearly don't know much about this do you.


P&R means a different one each year gets the chance. Your way means they have to wait for considerable time to be told to sod off.