We both want the same outcome but I believe we cannot achieve it with Chester in charge but judging by your post above you do. This does not make my opinion and less valid than yours despite what you believe nor does it make me any less a supporter. I admit I am not on email terms with MC, maybe you could use your lofty position to ask the club what they are intending to do to ensure we are at least given a chance to avoid relegation.

[iPoint of order[/i the injuries were only really 2019. 2020 was covid withdrawals. This year is only just beginning and not yet comparable to 2019. So, only one year, so far, of injury bad luck.

I agree some of the recruitment was baffling. Ryan Atkins? I guess when you're shopping at poundworld you have to take a chance that the North Korean phone charger is not going to explode in your face. When you're taking a punt there is a level of luck that they work out well.

The problem and solution are the same MONEY. We don't have any and in reality shouldn't be in the top division of a professional sport, but we keep on hanging in there hoping for a miracle.

This is not 1986 or even 2015, the team is better than that, we've been fairly competitive - it could all work out... keep the faith - for now. Confidence and mental toughness seem to be lacking, a single win could make all the difference.

The Dean Whare first half try summed it up for me. We try an offload in their half and pass it to a Catalans player. On the next tackle we are offside. They boot it into our half, we fail to get set, Langi taps while we have our backs turned and makes an easy 13-14 yards. They just ship it out wide for a fairly easy walk in.

Just a cluster of errors.

For comparison, I just thought I'd see what the graph of a really successful club looks like. So here's Wigan & Wakefield on the same graph.



Their mean position is 4.6, median of 3.0 and the mode is of course 1st (26 times in 126 seasons - more than 1 in 5)

We've only finished above them on 12 occasions in 117 seasons (not counting when they were split into county leagues)
2 of those were during the war time emergency leagues of 1944 and 1945, 2 were the season Wigan were relegated and the season they were in the 2nd division and another 2 were recently in SL (2009 & 2017)
We really are a middling club that sometimes punches above its weight. Staying in SL is an achievement, winning a trophy is spectacular.

For me there's a losing mind set in the team...they've become so accustomed to it there's no belief they can win and they've forgotten how to...you only have to see the last quarters of the Hull and Catalans games to see that...there was an air of inevitability in the Hull game that when we had got back to 14-14 and they then got the ball in our 20 they were going to score their winning try and it was the same when Kaye's try was chalked off vs Catalans...that mind set and air of inevitability crept in and it was 'here we go again', 'how unlucky are we'.

This mind set is throughout the players and seeps into any new signings we make so that they become as disputed and low on confidence...hence al the comments of 'we'll coach it out of them' etc.

We need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves and show the pride that this topic is asking us all to comment on

Where’s the chairman?!

There isn't one, it's a conch.

Well ironically Leeds threw money about like there was no tomorrow in the 80's & 90's, all those big name players, yet like you say from 2004 having invested in youth, became successful, with the likes of McGuire, Burrow, Sinfield etc, etc. Being successful occasionally is obviously far easier than sustaining it over 10, 20 years. I would just settle for what Salford have done recently! I started mid 80's as a kid, what have we done? Won the Yorkshire cup in '92 & the First division G/F in '98..............think that's it?!

Hope you don`t mind me butting in here Moggy, haven`t really been following the thread but on this comment; I often wonder if Leeds were just extremely lucky with the likes of Burrow, Sinfield, Hall and McGuire coming through at the same time and playing to that level or if somewhere along the line Leeds have neglected placing so much emphasis on youth development as I really can`t think of that many very good products to come from Leeds for a good few years and you quite often here of them throwing young players to one side and them going on to make a good player away from Leeds.

I think there is probably an argument to be had, that been able to bring in some top talent to throw in with your homegrown players helps there chances drastically of becoming a good standard SL player, especially in the very early stages of there careers and I would probably think in the positions like wingers were they are provided with a platform to look very good if they can take there chances and also are very rarely let down by the blokes inside of them in defence.

Wigan are said to have an endless conveyor belt of talent ready to step in, I don`t really question that but I do think been at Wigan definitely helps them and I often wonder if the likes of Liam Marshall came through at Wakefield at the same time as Dale Morton did, would there stories have been a whole lot different?

Don't mind at all! You make some good points, and yeah luck does come into play, as with lots of other things. Those Leeds youngsters mentioned are probably players that come along in a group maybe every 25, 30 years given their talent? Same at Man Utd, with Giggs, Neville, Scholes etc, but would they have been as successful without the guiding hand of Sir Alex?! There are obviously loads of elements into the making of a successful team aren't there, my argument is it just simply isn't down to money, but i'm sure history shows it's harder without money! Don't get me wrong also, I know how hard it is for clubs like ours to get hold of 15 to say 18 year old kids, who have potential, and how they always seem to end up at Wigan, Leeds, Saints etc, obviously at that age parents have a big say etc. as to where they end up.

"Success breeds success" seems to be the obvious quote to use here. Players are drawn to joining successful teams and so the better players inevitably end up at the more successful clubs. Those clubs can then pick and choose which ones are going to be top notch and discard the rest for the less successful clubs to pick up the pieces.
In the same way (and failure is a harsh word but) failure breeds failure. Clubs get so used to not achieving success that we accept any slight blip as a massive achievement and then expect to fall away again. That in itself then influences your ability to pick up and retain talented players.
In my eyes you probably need to get 2 or 3 sustained seasons of better than expected achievement to then be able to start building from. We've managed 1 or maybe even 2 but not been able to sustain it longer than that.
How we get that catalyst is another thing entirely and not something I have an answer to, sadly!