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Good player though! icon_biggrin.gif

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Unfortunately, from someone like me who only sees what he sees on the field with the odd extra info from this forum it is hard to comment.
I would agree with both sides, in the sense that we should have signed him up if he is good enough, but not if his attitude wasn't right.
Clearly an on the fence position but the key for me is that people closer to the player made that decision.

I would criticise if they made no decision and then let him go because they couldn't work fast enough to recover, but as I see this, we have decided in teh past not to offer him something and now we may do as he is getting better.
I'd say that's a reasonable approach.

We have had many threads like these for the likes of Southernwood and Gledhill, but in reality I can't see any have really proved us wrong.
The Ferguson and Murphy type loss was less to do with us and more to do with a bigger money club just paying more and taking advantage at the time. Both would have been good of course but we've managed without for now.

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Quote: vastman "I get your point but I'm not sure I agree. His attitude was hardly diabolical in the past and I've seen us take a punt on young players who have shown far less appetite in the past.

He's always been up there and if Wildie was worth the nod then Anakin sure as hell was. I just don't buy this he wasn't good enough last year, when to many of us he certainly was. I accept you have a deeper knowledge than most on these issues but on this one I can't go with you (not that it matters
The elements which were below standard are essential not only to an individual but also to the team dynamic.
There is simply no way for them to be tolerated as it would not only fatally flaw the player but would also undermine the whole team ethic not to mention diminishing the Coach in the eyes of everyone.

We've kept the faith with Annakin, he's on contract.
In some aspects the size of the contract isn't what’s relative now it's whether or not you could offer any player a place in the 1st team squad given that the player isn't conforming to the standards set and required by the Head Coach. If a player is not responding to the coaching team’s advice and failing to recognise the need for changes then it's time for the club to cut its losses.

There's a much higher degree of professionalism at the club than ever before, there's much more expected of the players in terms of their own self management. Some of the players who've been at the club under different coaching regimes have adapted to the higher standards faster than others, Wildie being one of them.

There's also a plate spinning act going on with the player budget which means we can't carry players who won't get with the program, their wages would be better redirected to someone else. Chris Annakins next contract is likely to be more financially significant than any of his previous ones therefore those spinning the plates needed to see the required improvements before making a decision, Chris Annakin is responsible for delaying the required changes.

Nobody's been waiting for the perfectly formed player just a genuine display of commitment at the desired level indicating that the raw materials can be moulded into something special without compromising the standards set by the club and its coaching staff.

Chris Annakin has really stepped up in all aspects on and off the field, at and away from the club but the changes are relatively recent. I'm delighted to see him playing in the 1st team and looking so good, he's beginning to realise the potential seen in him by so many people over the years. Other clubs will take notice, that’s the nature of the industry. I'm not going to criticise the club for thus far holding back on signing him up on a longer term contract. This season was make or break for Annakin and he looks like he'll make it but I'll say again, the person responsible for delaying his progress is Chris himself.

No one wants to see a Wakefield Trinity team full of local players who've come through our system more than me but we can't compromise the standards to make it happen otherwise we're destined to live our lives as a second tier feeder team.

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Great post Clan.
It's unusual to see so much sense talked on RL Fans. eusa_clap.gif eusa_clap.gif

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Great to read that about Annakin, Agar seems to be a strong disciplinarian and a methods man, as we witnessed when he sent us in "light" up front against Salford by dropping Amor.

A brave and potentially dangerous ploy by Agar, but certainly one that could reap long term benefits for the club.

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Quote: The Clan "The elements which were below standard are essential not only to an individual but also to the team dynamic.
There is simply no way for them to be tolerated as it would not only fatally flaw the player but would also undermine the whole team ethic not to mention diminishing the Coach in the eyes of everyone.

We've kept the faith with Annakin, he's on contract.
In some aspects the size of the contract isn't what’s relative now it's whether or not you could offer any player a place in the 1st team squad given that the player isn't conforming to the standards set and required by the Head Coach. If a player is not responding to the coaching team’s advice and failing to recognise the need for changes then it's time for the club to cut its losses.

There's a much higher degree of professionalism at the club than ever before, there's much more expected of the players in terms of their own self management. Some of the players who've been at the club under different coaching regimes have adapted to the higher standards faster than others, Wildie being one of them.

There's also a plate spinning act going on with the player budget which means we can't carry players who won't get with the program, their wages would be better redirected to someone else. Chris Annakins next contract is likely to be more financially significant than any of his previous ones therefore those spinning the plates needed to see the required improvements before making a decision, Chris Annakin is responsible for delaying the required changes.

Nobody's been waiting for the perfectly formed player just a genuine display of commitment at the desired level indicating that the raw materials can be moulded into something special without compromising the standards set by the club and its coaching staff.

Chris Annakin has really stepped up in all aspects on and off the field, at and away from the club but the changes are relatively recent. I'm delighted to see him playing in the 1st team and looking so good, he's beginning to realise the potential seen in him by so many people over the years. Other clubs will take notice, that’s the nature of the industry. I'm not going to criticise the club for thus far holding back on signing him up on a longer term contract. This season was make or break for Annakin and he looks like he'll make it but I'll say again, the person responsible for delaying his progress is Chris himself.

No one wants to see a Wakefield Trinity team full of local players who've come through our system more than me but we can't compromise the standards to make it happen otherwise we're destined to live our lives as a second tier feeder team.'"


What you say does seem at odds with what other posters of similar credibility have posted on here - this leaves someone less well informed such as myself slightly bemused and confused.

On this one I'm going to go with those who feel we have made a mistake - I base this on my own belief that sometimes you have to go on a hunch and the hunch was always there with Anakin for me.

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Quote: violetrwb "Great to read that about Annakin, Agar seems to be a strong disciplinarian and a methods man, as we witnessed when he sent us in "light" up front against Salford by dropping Amor.

A brave and potentially dangerous ploy by Agar, but certainly one that could reap long term benefits for the club.'"


Can't disagree although that is a slightly different issue.

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wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news/chr ... s/2011/07/

Signed a two year deal in 2011, no idea whether it was a full time one or not. Hopefully the club and player can sort something or re an extension.

Once the pack is back up to full strength, I see Annakin, Trout and Mariano fighting it out for the remaining SR spot in the match day squad.
wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news/chr ... s/2011/07/

Signed a two year deal in 2011, no idea whether it was a full time one or not. Hopefully the club and player can sort something or re an extension.

Once the pack is back up to full strength, I see Annakin, Trout and Mariano fighting it out for the remaining SR spot in the match day squad.


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Quote: vastman "What you say does seem at odds with what other posters of similar credibility have posted on here - this leaves someone less well informed such as myself slightly bemused and confused.

On this one I'm going to go with those who feel we have made a mistake - I base this on my own belief that sometimes you have to go on a hunch and the hunch was always there with Anakin for me.'"


Not sure who you're referring to, can you point me to the post(er)s in question then I can assess for myself.

Hunches are OK and they still have a part to play even in this era of sport sciences, metrics and analysis, they do however IMO require a fairly close relationship with the individual if they're going to be accurate.

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Quote: The Clan "The elements which were below standard are essential not only to an individual but also to the team dynamic.
There is simply no way for them to be tolerated as it would not only fatally flaw the player but would also undermine the whole team ethic not to mention diminishing the Coach in the eyes of everyone.

We've kept the faith with Annakin, he's on contract.
In some aspects the size of the contract isn't what’s relative now it's whether or not you could offer any player a place in the 1st team squad given that the player isn't conforming to the standards set and required by the Head Coach. If a player is not responding to the coaching team’s advice and failing to recognise the need for changes then it's time for the club to cut its losses.

There's a much higher degree of professionalism at the club than ever before, there's much more expected of the players in terms of their own self management. Some of the players who've been at the club under different coaching regimes have adapted to the higher standards faster than others, Wildie being one of them.

There's also a plate spinning act going on with the player budget which means we can't carry players who won't get with the program, their wages would be better redirected to someone else. Chris Annakins next contract is likely to be more financially significant than any of his previous ones therefore those spinning the plates needed to see the required improvements before making a decision, Chris Annakin is responsible for delaying the required changes.

Nobody's been waiting for the perfectly formed player just a genuine display of commitment at the desired level indicating that the raw materials can be moulded into something special without compromising the standards set by the club and its coaching staff.

Chris Annakin has really stepped up in all aspects on and off the field, at and away from the club but the changes are relatively recent. I'm delighted to see him playing in the 1st team and looking so good, he's beginning to realise the potential seen in him by so many people over the years. Other clubs will take notice, that’s the nature of the industry. I'm not going to criticise the club for thus far holding back on signing him up on a longer term contract. This season was make or break for Annakin and he looks like he'll make it but I'll say again, the person responsible for delaying his progress is Chris himself.

No one wants to see a Wakefield Trinity team full of local players who've come through our system more than me but we can't compromise the standards to make it happen otherwise we're destined to live our lives as a second tier feeder team.'"



Good post.

Annakin himself said he needed to improve his attitude & start listening to Agar more than he was. He's obviously knuckled down far more since the pre-season and now he's reaping his rewards with his consistent performances.

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[color=#400000:2dasnjxb]"Wakefields Sporting Crusader"[/color:2dasnjxb] [b:2dasnjxb][color=#FF0000:2dasnjxb]For the latest details on the Stadium for Wakefield campaign, log onto [url:2dasnjxb]http://www.swag-online.co.uk[/url:2dasnjxb][/color:2dasnjxb][/b:2dasnjxb] [b:2dasnjxb][color=#0000FF:2dasnjxb]For the latest details on the Supporters Trust, log onto [url:2dasnjxb]http://wakefield.rlfans.com[/url:2dasnjxb][/color:2dasnjxb][/b:2dasnjxb]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_15993.jpeg



Quote: The Clan "The elements which were below standard are essential not only to an individual but also to the team dynamic.
There is simply no way for them to be tolerated as it would not only fatally flaw the player but would also undermine the whole team ethic not to mention diminishing the Coach in the eyes of everyone.

We've kept the faith with Annakin, he's on contract.
In some aspects the size of the contract isn't what’s relative now it's whether or not you could offer any player a place in the 1st team squad given that the player isn't conforming to the standards set and required by the Head Coach. If a player is not responding to the coaching team’s advice and failing to recognise the need for changes then it's time for the club to cut its losses.

There's a much higher degree of professionalism at the club than ever before, there's much more expected of the players in terms of their own self management. Some of the players who've been at the club under different coaching regimes have adapted to the higher standards faster than others, Wildie being one of them.

There's also a plate spinning act going on with the player budget which means we can't carry players who won't get with the program, their wages would be better redirected to someone else. Chris Annakins next contract is likely to be more financially significant than any of his previous ones therefore those spinning the plates needed to see the required improvements before making a decision, Chris Annakin is responsible for delaying the required changes.

Nobody's been waiting for the perfectly formed player just a genuine display of commitment at the desired level indicating that the raw materials can be moulded into something special without compromising the standards set by the club and its coaching staff.

Chris Annakin has really stepped up in all aspects on and off the field, at and away from the club but the changes are relatively recent. I'm delighted to see him playing in the 1st team and looking so good, he's beginning to realise the potential seen in him by so many people over the years. Other clubs will take notice, that’s the nature of the industry. I'm not going to criticise the club for thus far holding back on signing him up on a longer term contract. This season was make or break for Annakin and he looks like he'll make it but I'll say again, the person responsible for delaying his progress is Chris himself.

No one wants to see a Wakefield Trinity team full of local players who've come through our system more than me but we can't compromise the standards to make it happen otherwise we're destined to live our lives as a second tier feeder team.'"


Most of that rings true in all honesty. My only other question would be over whether we have, as a club, managed the junior players as well as we could have and thereby contributed to the situation.

I know that there are some who say we mis-handled the whole of the 18's championship side - and that's not necessarily levelled at the current regime, although it still seems as if we stick with the same players come what may sometimes, hence why have we not given Cowling a run when Fox's form has dropped off a bit? (yes I know it's not like for like, but he could be fitted in).

Tough love is a difficult thing to get right - I really hope the club have got the gamble right?!

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Quote: The Clan "Not sure who you're referring to, can you point me to the post(er)s in question then I can assess for myself.

Hunches are OK and they still have a part to play even in this era of sport sciences, metrics and analysis, they do however IMO require a fairly close relationship with the individual if they're going to be accurate.'"


TRB and El ray amongst others have talked about the club mishandling young players and messing them around. I'm not saying they are talking it up as a massive issue but they seem less sure than you that the club is getting it right with he youngsters.

Agree about hunches but then we do pay RA to have good one icon_razz.gifRAY:

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I don't want to get into criticising the previous coaching regime, they did what they had to in order to put out a competitive 1st team. Suffice to say that for numerous reasons our junior development wasn’t at the forefront of the 1st team coaches minds.

There are other things that I've heard of, some alluded to on this forum over the last couple of years by El Ray et al, but I've no firsthand knowledge of those.

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At last a thread I WOULD LIKE TO STATE AN OPINION ON. Wakefield is a business that belongs to AG and he runs it as he sees fit, but youth development is part financed by the 1973 scheme and therefore is or should be open to scrutiny. What a crop we had
Will = London scholars
Jordan = Mackay Cutters
Danny = wakefield
Lucas = wakefield
Dale = dewsbury
Cain = whitehaven
Mattie = wakefield
Russ = dewsbury
Tom = batley/hunslet
Kyle = wakefield
George = hull hr
Adam = aussie
Chris = wakefield
Adam = aussie
Jake = York
Lee = hunslet
Then there`s the ones who were deemed not good enough Greg = hull kr, Joel p = hunslet. Tom harrington, Luke pendleton, Joel gibson, Jordan lauther. There should have been more of these devolved and in the first team squad by now. Look at
How many SL appearances such as Joe Arundel and Oliver Holmes have, and that weren't as good as ours. Not one of the last years 20s were retained and
I dare say none of the 19s will be on FULL time contracts at the end of this one. The principle of the 1873 scheme is 100% correct but in practise as with the purchasing of a £100s worth of shares under the previous regime it is not. If there is one item that should be on the supporters trust list to challenge the club on, the scheme should be it, after all we were promised transparency.

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Quote: The Clan "I don't want to get into criticising the previous coaching regime, they did what they had to in order to put out a competitive 1st team. Suffice to say that for numerous reasons our junior development wasn’t at the forefront of the 1st team coaches minds.

There are other things that I've heard of, some alluded to on this forum over the last couple of years by El Ray et al, but I've no firsthand knowledge of those.'"


And thats why Chris has maybe gone of the rails, due to being dumped on time and time again.

I am more than chuffed he's turning it around and that the clubs taking development to another level.

I have no issues with the present set up but i feel Chris as suffered in the past and while i don't have the knowledge you have with regards to sports science and all that stuff icon_wink.gif and for the record i believe you.
I do know if you treat a dog badly it becomes a bad dog.

Lets hope threads like this are a thing of the past.

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Widnes
v
Toulouse
19:30
Wakefield
v
Barrow
 Sun 22nd Sep
       Championship 2024-R27
15:00
Batley
v
Swinton
15:00
Halifax
v
Bradford
15:00
Swinton
v
Doncaster
       League One 2024-R24
15:00
Hunslet
v
Midlands
15:00
Keighley
v
Rochdale
 Sat 28th Sep
       Championship 2024-R28
17:00
Toulouse
v
Batley
 Sun 29th Sep
       Championship 2024-R28
15:00
Barrow
v
Widnes
15:00
Bradford
v
Swinton
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 19th Sep
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Castleford
SL
20:00
Wigan-Salford
Fri 20th Sep
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Leeds
SL
20:00
Leigh-St.Helens
SL
20:00
Warrington-LondonB
Sat 21st Sep
SL
15:00
Hull FC-Catalans
Sun 27th Oct
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sun 15th Sep
WSL2024 14 FeatherstoneW6-32York V
WSL2024 14 Hudds W36-0Wire W
CH 26 Barrow34-14Whitehaven
CH 26 Bradford16-14Batley
CH 26 Dewsbury16-28Swinton
CH 26 Doncaster30-14Widnes
CH 26 Featherstone6-20Sheffield
CH 26 Wakefield20-4York
NRL 28 Canterbury22-24Manly
L1 23 Midlands24-22Workington
L1 23 Rochdale30-18Hunslet
Sat 14th Sep
SL 26 Hull FC4-58Salford
SL 26 Catalans12-8LondonB
SL 26 Huddersfield0-66Warrington
CH 26 Toulouse38-18Halifax
NRL 28 Melbourne37-10Cronulla
NRL 28 NQL Cowboys28-16Newcastle
Fri 13th Sep
SL 26 Leigh0-24Hull KR
SL 26 St.Helens40-4Castleford
SL 26 Wigan38-0Leeds
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 26 657 336 321 42
Hull KR 26 693 311 382 40
Warrington 26 684 319 365 38
Salford 26 550 483 67 32
St.Helens 26 584 370 214 30
Leigh 26 548 386 162 29
 
Leeds 26 514 462 52 28
Catalans 26 451 423 28 28
Huddersfield 26 434 648 -214 18
Castleford 26 415 701 -286 15
LondonB 26 317 862 -545 6
Hull FC 26 324 870 -546 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 24 892 256 636 46
Bradford 24 618 373 245 32
Toulouse 23 662 340 322 31
Sheffield 24 594 472 122 28
Widnes 24 513 433 80 27
York 25 613 439 174 26
 
Featherstone 24 566 472 94 26
Doncaster 24 470 527 -57 23
Batley 24 378 513 -135 20
Halifax 24 475 617 -142 20
Barrow 23 418 648 -230 19
Swinton 24 446 606 -160 18
Whitehaven 24 414 806 -392 16
Dewsbury 25 308 821 -513 2
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