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Good player though! icon_biggrin.gif

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Unfortunately, from someone like me who only sees what he sees on the field with the odd extra info from this forum it is hard to comment.
I would agree with both sides, in the sense that we should have signed him up if he is good enough, but not if his attitude wasn't right.
Clearly an on the fence position but the key for me is that people closer to the player made that decision.

I would criticise if they made no decision and then let him go because they couldn't work fast enough to recover, but as I see this, we have decided in teh past not to offer him something and now we may do as he is getting better.
I'd say that's a reasonable approach.

We have had many threads like these for the likes of Southernwood and Gledhill, but in reality I can't see any have really proved us wrong.
The Ferguson and Murphy type loss was less to do with us and more to do with a bigger money club just paying more and taking advantage at the time. Both would have been good of course but we've managed without for now.

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Quote: vastman "I get your point but I'm not sure I agree. His attitude was hardly diabolical in the past and I've seen us take a punt on young players who have shown far less appetite in the past.

He's always been up there and if Wildie was worth the nod then Anakin sure as hell was. I just don't buy this he wasn't good enough last year, when to many of us he certainly was. I accept you have a deeper knowledge than most on these issues but on this one I can't go with you (not that it matters
The elements which were below standard are essential not only to an individual but also to the team dynamic.
There is simply no way for them to be tolerated as it would not only fatally flaw the player but would also undermine the whole team ethic not to mention diminishing the Coach in the eyes of everyone.

We've kept the faith with Annakin, he's on contract.
In some aspects the size of the contract isn't what’s relative now it's whether or not you could offer any player a place in the 1st team squad given that the player isn't conforming to the standards set and required by the Head Coach. If a player is not responding to the coaching team’s advice and failing to recognise the need for changes then it's time for the club to cut its losses.

There's a much higher degree of professionalism at the club than ever before, there's much more expected of the players in terms of their own self management. Some of the players who've been at the club under different coaching regimes have adapted to the higher standards faster than others, Wildie being one of them.

There's also a plate spinning act going on with the player budget which means we can't carry players who won't get with the program, their wages would be better redirected to someone else. Chris Annakins next contract is likely to be more financially significant than any of his previous ones therefore those spinning the plates needed to see the required improvements before making a decision, Chris Annakin is responsible for delaying the required changes.

Nobody's been waiting for the perfectly formed player just a genuine display of commitment at the desired level indicating that the raw materials can be moulded into something special without compromising the standards set by the club and its coaching staff.

Chris Annakin has really stepped up in all aspects on and off the field, at and away from the club but the changes are relatively recent. I'm delighted to see him playing in the 1st team and looking so good, he's beginning to realise the potential seen in him by so many people over the years. Other clubs will take notice, that’s the nature of the industry. I'm not going to criticise the club for thus far holding back on signing him up on a longer term contract. This season was make or break for Annakin and he looks like he'll make it but I'll say again, the person responsible for delaying his progress is Chris himself.

No one wants to see a Wakefield Trinity team full of local players who've come through our system more than me but we can't compromise the standards to make it happen otherwise we're destined to live our lives as a second tier feeder team.

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Great post Clan.
It's unusual to see so much sense talked on RL Fans. eusa_clap.gif eusa_clap.gif

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Great to read that about Annakin, Agar seems to be a strong disciplinarian and a methods man, as we witnessed when he sent us in "light" up front against Salford by dropping Amor.

A brave and potentially dangerous ploy by Agar, but certainly one that could reap long term benefits for the club.

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Quote: The Clan "The elements which were below standard are essential not only to an individual but also to the team dynamic.
There is simply no way for them to be tolerated as it would not only fatally flaw the player but would also undermine the whole team ethic not to mention diminishing the Coach in the eyes of everyone.

We've kept the faith with Annakin, he's on contract.
In some aspects the size of the contract isn't what’s relative now it's whether or not you could offer any player a place in the 1st team squad given that the player isn't conforming to the standards set and required by the Head Coach. If a player is not responding to the coaching team’s advice and failing to recognise the need for changes then it's time for the club to cut its losses.

There's a much higher degree of professionalism at the club than ever before, there's much more expected of the players in terms of their own self management. Some of the players who've been at the club under different coaching regimes have adapted to the higher standards faster than others, Wildie being one of them.

There's also a plate spinning act going on with the player budget which means we can't carry players who won't get with the program, their wages would be better redirected to someone else. Chris Annakins next contract is likely to be more financially significant than any of his previous ones therefore those spinning the plates needed to see the required improvements before making a decision, Chris Annakin is responsible for delaying the required changes.

Nobody's been waiting for the perfectly formed player just a genuine display of commitment at the desired level indicating that the raw materials can be moulded into something special without compromising the standards set by the club and its coaching staff.

Chris Annakin has really stepped up in all aspects on and off the field, at and away from the club but the changes are relatively recent. I'm delighted to see him playing in the 1st team and looking so good, he's beginning to realise the potential seen in him by so many people over the years. Other clubs will take notice, that’s the nature of the industry. I'm not going to criticise the club for thus far holding back on signing him up on a longer term contract. This season was make or break for Annakin and he looks like he'll make it but I'll say again, the person responsible for delaying his progress is Chris himself.

No one wants to see a Wakefield Trinity team full of local players who've come through our system more than me but we can't compromise the standards to make it happen otherwise we're destined to live our lives as a second tier feeder team.'"


What you say does seem at odds with what other posters of similar credibility have posted on here - this leaves someone less well informed such as myself slightly bemused and confused.

On this one I'm going to go with those who feel we have made a mistake - I base this on my own belief that sometimes you have to go on a hunch and the hunch was always there with Anakin for me.

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Quote: violetrwb "Great to read that about Annakin, Agar seems to be a strong disciplinarian and a methods man, as we witnessed when he sent us in "light" up front against Salford by dropping Amor.

A brave and potentially dangerous ploy by Agar, but certainly one that could reap long term benefits for the club.'"


Can't disagree although that is a slightly different issue.

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wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news/chr ... s/2011/07/

Signed a two year deal in 2011, no idea whether it was a full time one or not. Hopefully the club and player can sort something or re an extension.

Once the pack is back up to full strength, I see Annakin, Trout and Mariano fighting it out for the remaining SR spot in the match day squad.
wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news/chr ... s/2011/07/

Signed a two year deal in 2011, no idea whether it was a full time one or not. Hopefully the club and player can sort something or re an extension.

Once the pack is back up to full strength, I see Annakin, Trout and Mariano fighting it out for the remaining SR spot in the match day squad.


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Quote: vastman "What you say does seem at odds with what other posters of similar credibility have posted on here - this leaves someone less well informed such as myself slightly bemused and confused.

On this one I'm going to go with those who feel we have made a mistake - I base this on my own belief that sometimes you have to go on a hunch and the hunch was always there with Anakin for me.'"


Not sure who you're referring to, can you point me to the post(er)s in question then I can assess for myself.

Hunches are OK and they still have a part to play even in this era of sport sciences, metrics and analysis, they do however IMO require a fairly close relationship with the individual if they're going to be accurate.

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Quote: The Clan "The elements which were below standard are essential not only to an individual but also to the team dynamic.
There is simply no way for them to be tolerated as it would not only fatally flaw the player but would also undermine the whole team ethic not to mention diminishing the Coach in the eyes of everyone.

We've kept the faith with Annakin, he's on contract.
In some aspects the size of the contract isn't what’s relative now it's whether or not you could offer any player a place in the 1st team squad given that the player isn't conforming to the standards set and required by the Head Coach. If a player is not responding to the coaching team’s advice and failing to recognise the need for changes then it's time for the club to cut its losses.

There's a much higher degree of professionalism at the club than ever before, there's much more expected of the players in terms of their own self management. Some of the players who've been at the club under different coaching regimes have adapted to the higher standards faster than others, Wildie being one of them.

There's also a plate spinning act going on with the player budget which means we can't carry players who won't get with the program, their wages would be better redirected to someone else. Chris Annakins next contract is likely to be more financially significant than any of his previous ones therefore those spinning the plates needed to see the required improvements before making a decision, Chris Annakin is responsible for delaying the required changes.

Nobody's been waiting for the perfectly formed player just a genuine display of commitment at the desired level indicating that the raw materials can be moulded into something special without compromising the standards set by the club and its coaching staff.

Chris Annakin has really stepped up in all aspects on and off the field, at and away from the club but the changes are relatively recent. I'm delighted to see him playing in the 1st team and looking so good, he's beginning to realise the potential seen in him by so many people over the years. Other clubs will take notice, that’s the nature of the industry. I'm not going to criticise the club for thus far holding back on signing him up on a longer term contract. This season was make or break for Annakin and he looks like he'll make it but I'll say again, the person responsible for delaying his progress is Chris himself.

No one wants to see a Wakefield Trinity team full of local players who've come through our system more than me but we can't compromise the standards to make it happen otherwise we're destined to live our lives as a second tier feeder team.'"



Good post.

Annakin himself said he needed to improve his attitude & start listening to Agar more than he was. He's obviously knuckled down far more since the pre-season and now he's reaping his rewards with his consistent performances.

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[color=#400000:2dasnjxb]"Wakefields Sporting Crusader"[/color:2dasnjxb] [b:2dasnjxb][color=#FF0000:2dasnjxb]For the latest details on the Stadium for Wakefield campaign, log onto [url:2dasnjxb]http://www.swag-online.co.uk[/url:2dasnjxb][/color:2dasnjxb][/b:2dasnjxb] [b:2dasnjxb][color=#0000FF:2dasnjxb]For the latest details on the Supporters Trust, log onto [url:2dasnjxb]http://wakefield.rlfans.com[/url:2dasnjxb][/color:2dasnjxb][/b:2dasnjxb]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_15993.jpeg



Quote: The Clan "The elements which were below standard are essential not only to an individual but also to the team dynamic.
There is simply no way for them to be tolerated as it would not only fatally flaw the player but would also undermine the whole team ethic not to mention diminishing the Coach in the eyes of everyone.

We've kept the faith with Annakin, he's on contract.
In some aspects the size of the contract isn't what’s relative now it's whether or not you could offer any player a place in the 1st team squad given that the player isn't conforming to the standards set and required by the Head Coach. If a player is not responding to the coaching team’s advice and failing to recognise the need for changes then it's time for the club to cut its losses.

There's a much higher degree of professionalism at the club than ever before, there's much more expected of the players in terms of their own self management. Some of the players who've been at the club under different coaching regimes have adapted to the higher standards faster than others, Wildie being one of them.

There's also a plate spinning act going on with the player budget which means we can't carry players who won't get with the program, their wages would be better redirected to someone else. Chris Annakins next contract is likely to be more financially significant than any of his previous ones therefore those spinning the plates needed to see the required improvements before making a decision, Chris Annakin is responsible for delaying the required changes.

Nobody's been waiting for the perfectly formed player just a genuine display of commitment at the desired level indicating that the raw materials can be moulded into something special without compromising the standards set by the club and its coaching staff.

Chris Annakin has really stepped up in all aspects on and off the field, at and away from the club but the changes are relatively recent. I'm delighted to see him playing in the 1st team and looking so good, he's beginning to realise the potential seen in him by so many people over the years. Other clubs will take notice, that’s the nature of the industry. I'm not going to criticise the club for thus far holding back on signing him up on a longer term contract. This season was make or break for Annakin and he looks like he'll make it but I'll say again, the person responsible for delaying his progress is Chris himself.

No one wants to see a Wakefield Trinity team full of local players who've come through our system more than me but we can't compromise the standards to make it happen otherwise we're destined to live our lives as a second tier feeder team.'"


Most of that rings true in all honesty. My only other question would be over whether we have, as a club, managed the junior players as well as we could have and thereby contributed to the situation.

I know that there are some who say we mis-handled the whole of the 18's championship side - and that's not necessarily levelled at the current regime, although it still seems as if we stick with the same players come what may sometimes, hence why have we not given Cowling a run when Fox's form has dropped off a bit? (yes I know it's not like for like, but he could be fitted in).

Tough love is a difficult thing to get right - I really hope the club have got the gamble right?!

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Quote: The Clan "Not sure who you're referring to, can you point me to the post(er)s in question then I can assess for myself.

Hunches are OK and they still have a part to play even in this era of sport sciences, metrics and analysis, they do however IMO require a fairly close relationship with the individual if they're going to be accurate.'"


TRB and El ray amongst others have talked about the club mishandling young players and messing them around. I'm not saying they are talking it up as a massive issue but they seem less sure than you that the club is getting it right with he youngsters.

Agree about hunches but then we do pay RA to have good one icon_razz.gifRAY:

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I don't want to get into criticising the previous coaching regime, they did what they had to in order to put out a competitive 1st team. Suffice to say that for numerous reasons our junior development wasn’t at the forefront of the 1st team coaches minds.

There are other things that I've heard of, some alluded to on this forum over the last couple of years by El Ray et al, but I've no firsthand knowledge of those.

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At last a thread I WOULD LIKE TO STATE AN OPINION ON. Wakefield is a business that belongs to AG and he runs it as he sees fit, but youth development is part financed by the 1973 scheme and therefore is or should be open to scrutiny. What a crop we had
Will = London scholars
Jordan = Mackay Cutters
Danny = wakefield
Lucas = wakefield
Dale = dewsbury
Cain = whitehaven
Mattie = wakefield
Russ = dewsbury
Tom = batley/hunslet
Kyle = wakefield
George = hull hr
Adam = aussie
Chris = wakefield
Adam = aussie
Jake = York
Lee = hunslet
Then there`s the ones who were deemed not good enough Greg = hull kr, Joel p = hunslet. Tom harrington, Luke pendleton, Joel gibson, Jordan lauther. There should have been more of these devolved and in the first team squad by now. Look at
How many SL appearances such as Joe Arundel and Oliver Holmes have, and that weren't as good as ours. Not one of the last years 20s were retained and
I dare say none of the 19s will be on FULL time contracts at the end of this one. The principle of the 1873 scheme is 100% correct but in practise as with the purchasing of a £100s worth of shares under the previous regime it is not. If there is one item that should be on the supporters trust list to challenge the club on, the scheme should be it, after all we were promised transparency.

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Quote: The Clan "I don't want to get into criticising the previous coaching regime, they did what they had to in order to put out a competitive 1st team. Suffice to say that for numerous reasons our junior development wasn’t at the forefront of the 1st team coaches minds.

There are other things that I've heard of, some alluded to on this forum over the last couple of years by El Ray et al, but I've no firsthand knowledge of those.'"


And thats why Chris has maybe gone of the rails, due to being dumped on time and time again.

I am more than chuffed he's turning it around and that the clubs taking development to another level.

I have no issues with the present set up but i feel Chris as suffered in the past and while i don't have the knowledge you have with regards to sports science and all that stuff icon_wink.gif and for the record i believe you.
I do know if you treat a dog badly it becomes a bad dog.

Lets hope threads like this are a thing of the past.

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v
Souths
     Mens Super League XXX-R3
20:00
Castleford
v
Salford
20:00
St.Helens
v
Hull KR
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington-Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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