FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > steve southern |
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| Quote: kingsway cat "He is the captain when Southern is off the field?! It is apparent that Agar knew Southern was not a 80 minute man hence why he gave the vice captaincy to a player who would be on the field when Southern was off.
Call me traditional, stupid or narrow minded but I think a captain should be a forward or a play maker, as these players inspire the team with bone crunching tackles, barnstorming runs or a little bit of magic to get you on a front foot....this buoys the rest of the team up, from my experience anyway. Southern fits into this 'ideal' mold in my opinion as he makes the tackles, he does hit well and this will inspire his team mates.
Perhaps if RA used his brain a little bit, looked at the number on Southerns back and looked history of the games Southern has played he will play him in his favoured position and then we might see him enjoying his rugby a little more.'"
Completely agree with the above post except to add that if Southern is also not fit he needs to be rested & get himself 100% fit (seems to be carrying too much around the middle) and then back in the second row where he belongs with Lauititi on the bench for impact as he did when at Leeds to good effect.
When the going gets tough Wakefield's bench is full of plodders except for Wood so Lauititi fresh from the bench could give WTW some extra impetus when its needed. I accept that its common practice to have 2 props on the bench but I think its because R.A. is concerned about the strength of his pack.
Its a squad game (not just 1-17) and if anyone is not 100% in the pack then use Matt James on the bench for prop instead of Wilkes who should start (Number 8 on his back!) with Amor and then Raleigh on bench , if James is not up to it then get rid.
Please give Ellis a chance at hooker and move Aiton to loose forward! Bench - Raleigh, Lauititi, Wood, James
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| Quote: asmadasa "Its a squad game (not just 1-17) and if anyone is not 100% in the pack then use Matt James on the bench for prop instead of Wilkes who should start (Number 8 on his back!) with Amor and then Raleigh on bench , if James is not up to it then get rid.
Please give Ellis a chance at hooker and move Aiton to loose forward! Bench - Raleigh, Lauititi, Wood, James
But Raleigh has 10 on his back? so why him on the bench?
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| I like Wilkes of the bench, he seems to add abit of something to our pack when he comes on that i cant see raliegh bringing of the bench.
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| Quote: Mable_Syrup "But Raleigh has 10 on his back? so why him on the bench?'"
I would start him on the bench in this one. Hopefully by the time time he gets on Ganson will have too many other things on his mind to forget his personal vendetta against him.
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| Quote: asmadasa "
Please give Ellis a chance at hooker and move Aiton to loose forward! Bench - Raleigh, Lauititi, Wood, James
I'm as keen as anybody to see Ellis given a chance but why move Aiton to loose forward? What's Danny Washbrook done wrong, I think he's been a good signing and fully commits himself to the team. If Ellis was to come into the team it would not be at the expense of Washbrook or Wood for me. A reshuffle would be needed and quite clearly RA is not yet prepared to do that!
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| Quote: sandaltrinityfan "I'm as keen as anybody to see Ellis given a chance but why move Aiton to loose forward? What's Danny Washbrook done wrong, I think he's been a good signing and fully commits himself to the team. If Ellis was to come into the team it would not be at the expense of Washbrook or Wood for me. A reshuffle would be needed and quite clearly RA is not yet prepared to do that!'"
Point taken. It'll be a must though if Wakefield do not perform against Cas that other squad players come in and freshen things up. Aiton does not run from dummy half anywhere near enough & this needs to be addressed against Cas but he is a fantastic tackler & a strong runner so should revert to his other favoured position which is loose forward.
Nothing against Washbrook he's a good signing but if there is a problem around the ruck area & dummy half then that needs to be addressed within the next few games so someone will have to move over. Opposition teams are getting a roll on quite alot of the time from runs from dummy half, whose fault is that?
This must be done with the introduction of Ellis who had fantastic OPTA stats last year at Harlequins with yardage made. He also scored 2 tries last week and is a proven Super League Hooker. Someone will have to be dropped if things don't go well so it may be down to the player stats etc.
I'm not suggesting Wood is dropped as I think Wood needs to be on the bench for his versatility & impact with his sharp runs and good kicking game so its not at Wood's expense that Ellis comes in.
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| Quote: asmadasa "Point taken.
Nothing against Washbrook he's a good signing but if there is a problem around the ruck area & dummy half then that needs to be addressed within the next few games so someone will have to move over. Opposition teams are getting a roll on quite alot of the time from runs from dummy half, whose fault is that?
I also think that the result and attitude must be right against Cas' and if the unforgiveable happens then changes must be made and Ellis given a chance. IF we beat Cas' and play convincingly then I will be among the first to acknowledge that RA has got it right!
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| Surely we will need to mix the squad up a little bit, just to cope with the Easter period, if not the players will be absolutely knackered for the next few weeks.
The fixture scedule is bad enough at the best of times, but Saturday, Friday, Monday and then Friday is crazy.
We are having to play the 4 fixtures, with 2 days less rest than the other clubs and it is these fixtures that will define our season.
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| Quote: sandaltrinityfan "I'm as keen as anybody to see Ellis given a chance but why move Aiton to loose forward? What's Danny Washbrook done wrong, I think he's been a good signing and fully commits himself to the team. If Ellis was to come into the team it would not be at the expense of Washbrook or Wood for me. A reshuffle would be needed and quite clearly RA is not yet prepared to do that!'"
Totally agree re washbrook, He's being playing great so why move him? We finally have a genuine ENGLISH LF at the club!
Aiton has being outstanding at hooker, probably our best player this season so far, so why move him
Wood has really established his self in the impact hooker role. So dropping him for Ellis wouldnt be right when he is playing so well, that said he's still a developing player and I'm sure at some natural point Ellis will take over that role
For me the matter is simple, the team need more time to play together and we need a decent prop with some size adding to the props we already have to help the pack gain some forward momentum
Clearly Agar wants to bring another prop into the club and Southern is filling the prop gap for the minute, I'm sure once Southern drops back to the back row we'll see the best from him
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| Quote: musson "Totally agree re washbrook, He's being playing great so why move him? We finally have a genuine ENGLISH LF at the club!
Aiton has being outstanding at hooker, probably our best player this season so far, so why move him
Wood has really established his self in the impact hooker role. So dropping him for Ellis wouldnt be right when he is playing so well, that said he's still a developing player and I'm sure at some natural point Ellis will take over that role
For me the matter is simple, the team need more time to play together and we need a decent prop with some size adding to the props we already have to help the pack gain some forward momentum
Clearly Agar wants to bring another prop into the club and Southern is filling the prop gap for the minute, I'm sure once Southern drops back to the back row we'll see the best from him'"
Can't agree about Aiton - fantastic player that he is - he ain't a hooker.
At random I chose Danny Houghton for a comparison
Half the number of dummy runs and about 2/3 of the metres made. Not the right player for the role.
He would definitely be in the 17, and I don't mind him covering hooker, but for him to play most of the game there is stifling our play straight away.
I don't believe that any of the players should be dropped based on Saturdays performance - it would do no good to single out individuals in a dreadful all-round performance - but I do think that tactical changes could be in order and I would certainly wish to see either Wildie or Ellis in the 17, with Aiton's role being altered. If that means someone has to make way, then that is what has to happen.
If we can't get momentum from the PTB, then we won't be able to play our expansive game - without it just being lateral movement.
This is not someone getting something wrong - I just don't feel that we've got it right yet!
As for Southern - get stuck in lad and lead from the front as the job description says - you are that man, if you want to be!
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| Quote: TRB "Can't agree about Aiton - fantastic player that he is - he ain't a hooker.
At random I chose Danny Houghton for a comparison
'"
Can't just compare him against 1 hooker, (Possibly the second best hooker in the league behind Roby)
Look at the stats against luke robsinson.. rlStatsrl
Aiton is a class act, and quite possibly the best signing of our season
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| I would like to see Ellis given a start but to drop Washbrook and put Aiton at loose would not be fair as Washrook has done no wrong.We do need another prop and not just anyone one that will drive the ball up all day long and make the yards not just go down at the first touch of a tackle.The loss of Amor for a few weeks showed this and in the London game he appeared to get a knock at one bit and did seem as though it stunted our go forward.Up to that game most players had given it a good go so who to drop/move I will leave that up to Agar hes the coach not us and will rise or fall by his choices over the long run.
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| Quote: TRB "Can't agree about Aiton - fantastic player that he is - he ain't a hooker.
At random I chose Danny Houghton for a comparison
Half the number of dummy runs and about 2/3 of the metres made. Not the right player for the role.
He would definitely be in the 17, and I don't mind him covering hooker, but for him to play most of the game there is stifling our play straight away.
I don't believe that any of the players should be dropped based on Saturdays performance - it would do no good to single out individuals in a dreadful all-round performance - but I do think that tactical changes could be in order and I would certainly wish to see either Wildie or Ellis in the 17, with Aiton's role being altered. If that means someone has to make way, then that is what has to happen.
If we can't get momentum from the PTB, then we won't be able to play our expansive game - without it just being lateral movement.
This is not someone getting something wrong - I just don't feel that we've got it right yet!
As for Southern - get stuck in lad and lead from the front as the job description says - you are that man, if you want to be!
It’s a good point, the main difference really between the two being carries from dummy half and meters made
That comparison issue actually strengthens my point though, the forwards need to create more go forward, were desperate for a prop with more size to help out in this, Sothern is too under sized to effectively do this. Without the forwards getting us on the front foot, like the 6 & 7 the hooker doesn’t have enough room to work effectively
That’s shown in those stats
Got to say though for me Aiton is the buy of the season and doing great job at hooker
It’s funny how people view the game and players in different ways!
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| Quote: W.T.W "Can't just compare him against 1 hooker, (Possibly the second best hooker in the league behind Roby)
Look at the stats against luke robsinson.. rlStatsrl
Aiton is a class act, and quite possibly the best signing of our season'"
Not argued at all.
However, his stats against Robinson don't show that - given that Robinson has played 1 game fewer and will have certainly spent less time on the pitch.
The only definitive win to Aiton is tackling - and he could still defend around the ruck, even if someone else is playing at half-back.
We need more go forward from the PTB.
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| Quote: musson "It’s a good point, the main difference really between the two being carries from dummy half and meters made
That comparison issue actually strengthens my point though, the forwards need to create more go forward, were desperate for a prop with more size to help out in this, Sothern is too under sized to effectively do this. Without the forwards getting us on the front foot, like the 6 & 7 the hooker doesn’t have enough room to work effectively
That’s shown in those stats
Got to say though for me Aiton is the buy of the season and doing great job at hooker
It’s funny how people view the game and players in different ways!'"
There's a bit of chicken & egg here. Bigger forwards may help to put us on the front foot, but more runs from dummy half might also allow our forwards a little more space and time to run into - rather than a charging defence!
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