[quote="FIL":2l3igsdj]Hopefully he will look at his mate Tom Johnstone's example...went away for big money because we couldn't afford to keep him but has now come HOME to a club on the rise (hopefully)....the difference being that we CAN now afford to pay Max his true worth, so hopefully he won't feel the need to go anywhere else [/quote:2l3igsdj] Let’s hope so, the grass isn’t always greener. I very much hope Max stays and with another 6-7 years in him I expect he will be able to realise any ambition with Trinity in a few short years (hopefully).

I asked Powell at fans forum if we are discussing a deal with him and he smiled and said definatly, I took this to mean it's more or less nailed on. Matt Ellis said we will not be losing homegrown players to bigger clubs anymore. So I guess we will be able to match for money and Matt strikes me as a loyal Trinity player as he stayed when he could have left when we went down.

[quote="Dannyboywt1":e3oulms9]I asked Powell at fans forum if we are discussing a deal with him and he smiled and said definatly, I took this to mean it's more or less nailed on. Matt Ellis said we will not be losing homegrown players to bigger clubs anymore. So I guess we will be able to match for money and Matt strikes me as a loyal Trinity player as he stayed when he could have left when we went down.[/quote:e3oulms9] Stayed at the club when he was getting dropped for one mistake in a match .Yet the player who took is position could do as he liked .Max should have left the then ,but took it on the chin and got on with it Will be a strange call to move on now as hopefully the club as turned the corner.

I don’t actually think he’d be in that high demand. He’s one of those players who is completely underestimated by other clubs’ fans, and always has been, and I think if you told the average supporter Max Jowitt was potentially second in line for the England full back shirt they’d laugh in your face. And they’re all the reasons I love him. I’m desperate for him to absolutely tear it up the next couple of seasons - because with Welsby possibly being moved into the halves (once Wellens/his successor realises Tristan Sailor isn’t wise enough) he has a genuine shot at being England’s full back by the World Cup in 2026. Against, any opposition fan reading that would wet themselves, and that’s why i don’t think he’d go anywhere else for now

[quote="alegend":3jmxwiyy]Stayed at the club when he was getting dropped for one mistake in a match .Yet the player who took is position could do as he liked .Max should have left the then ,but took it on the chin and got on with it Will be a strange call to move on now as hopefully the club as turned the corner.[/quote:3jmxwiyy] Alternatively the coach doesn't make decisions on the one incident you saw from the terrace in one game. But hey you know best I guess. Personally think this is the best place for Max right now. He's been good but not excellent in SL before but showed signs of having much more in him. He's now had a year in Championship to hone his skills with an experienced coaching team. This is just the right time for him to achieve his full potential. If he wanted to move on in years ahead so be it, but this year is the year he sets his value.

[quote="Butcher":1zdvcu3u]I don’t actually think he’d be in that high demand. He’s one of those players who is completely underestimated by other clubs’ fans, and always has been, and I think if you told the average supporter Max Jowitt was potentially second in line for the England full back shirt they’d laugh in your face. And they’re all the reasons I love him. I’m desperate for him to absolutely tear it up the next couple of seasons - because with Welsby possibly being moved into the halves (once Wellens/his successor realises Tristan Sailor isn’t wise enough) he has a genuine shot at being England’s full back by the World Cup in 2026. Against, any opposition fan reading that would wet themselves, and that’s why i don’t think he’d go anywhere else for now[/quote:1zdvcu3u] Completely agree. It will be to his advantage this year being a 'nobody' in SL. I hope he smashes it. His goalkicking alone will get him noticed.

He has got such an all round game. Safe under the high ball, excellent tackler and great at organising our line. His pace also surprised me. He chased back a few times last year to stop a certain try. I think away at Batley was a good example right in front of us. With the ball, he provides an extra dimension to our attack, and his miss out passes to the winger are top draw. His goal kicking speaks for itself! Hopefully he has already signed. I see they have used him on another ticket advert today (magic weekend). Could be excellent marketing!

[quote="Trinity_lurcher":2te78f85]He has got such an all round game. Safe under the high ball, excellent tackler and great at organising our line. His pace also surprised me. He chased back a few times last year to stop a certain try. I think away at Batley was a good example right in front of us. With the ball, he provides an extra dimension to our attack, and his miss out passes to the winger are top draw. His goal kicking speaks for itself! Hopefully he has already signed. I see they have used him on another ticket advert today (magic weekend). Could be excellent marketing![/quote:2te78f85] His defense is his weakest point but not bad. The bit he has developed, but will need to develop further in SL is his management of the defensive line. If he wants to be an international level player, this is the development area that will take him there. His attack and especially his pass is as good if not better than anyone in SL.

[quote="Butcher":392qz2o9]I don’t actually think he’d be in that high demand. He’s one of those players who is completely underestimated by other clubs’ fans, and always has been, and I think if you told the average supporter Max Jowitt was potentially second in line for the England full back shirt they’d laugh in your face. And they’re all the reasons I love him. I’m desperate for him to absolutely tear it up the next couple of seasons - because with Welsby possibly being moved into the halves (once Wellens/his successor realises Tristan Sailor isn’t wise enough) he has a genuine shot at being England’s full back by the World Cup in 2026. Against, any opposition fan reading that would wet themselves, and that’s why i don’t think he’d go anywhere else for now[/quote:392qz2o9] I have always expected he will play for England towards back end of his career. He’s been on a steady upwards trajectory for years. He’s developed his game well and is far better than Wellsby in some of those areas such as joining the line and his pass selection ability. The only thing Wellsby has over Max is just the turn of pace after a step. An injury to Wellsby (hopefully not) or a position change and Jowitt could find himself thrust into an England shirt as you say. I also think that he would be a big boost to edge plays and set plays in any England set up.

[quote="PopTart":o55o8v95]His defense is his weakest point but not bad. The bit he has developed, but will need to develop further in SL is his management of the defensive line. If he wants to be an international level player, this is the development area that will take him there. His attack and especially his pass is as good if not better than anyone in SL.[/quote:o55o8v95] Maybe we are seeing different things but his management of the defensive line last season was extremely good. If you watch games back he’s constantly shepherding players where they need to be whilst placing himself in good positions in defence and attack. He’s already better in this area than the current England full back. Perhaps he will have to show this at SL level if that is what you meant about developing further. I genuinely believe if you stuck Max in Wellsby’s shoes he would be running saints in for many more try’s and perform better than Wellsby overall. Now he has a team that’s on the upwards trajectory for having quality and determination around him, hopefully he can do it with us next few seasons.

[quote="Trojan Horse":19k5rx8c]Maybe we are seeing different things but his management of the defensive line last season was extremely good. If you watch games back he’s constantly shepherding players where they need to be whilst placing himself in good positions in defence and attack. He’s already better in this area than the current England full back. Perhaps he will have to show this at SL level if that is what you meant about developing further. I genuinely believe if you stuck Max in Wellsby’s shoes he would be running saints in for many more try’s and perform better than Wellsby overall. Now he has a team that’s on the upwards trajectory for having quality and determination around him, hopefully he can do it with us next few seasons.[/quote:19k5rx8c] I actually said he'd developed this part of his game. I also said his attack is as good if not better than anyone. So to use your oft used phrase, maybe you should go back and reread my post. Saying that, my point is, improving your line management in the championship is great, but it isn't SL. I'm sure he will develop further under Powell but I see this as an area he has to show his improvement this year. For England, he doesn't really have a lot of competition as most teams have an overseas full back. Welsby, Evalds, Hardaker at a push and Eckersley at Wigan as an outsider.

[quote="alegend":qdqfgzme]Stayed at the club when he was getting dropped for one mistake in a match .Yet the player who took is position could do as he liked .Max should have left the then ,but took it on the chin and got on with it Will be a strange call to move on now as hopefully the club as turned the corner.[/quote:qdqfgzme] Hi Butcher , with all due respect , and I aren't a Cas fan with any axe to grind , I don't think he is second in line for England . If Welsby wasn't available then I think Evalds is clear second in line for the role and a much better all round FB than Max at the moment . That said , England 2026 WC team may be a possibility , as Evalds will be 32 and , if Max continues to improve in the meantime , he would appear to be the obvious choice as understudy to Welsby , Sorry 'alegend', clicked the wrong post to reply to by mistake , hence the 'Hi Butcher' start to the message

For sure, that’s exactly what I meant really, that opposition supporters (welcome!) would consider Evalds or even Brierley in front of him, but Wakey fans know he’s a better player than either of them. However, he needs a brilliant season or two in SL to prove that to kick on and get in the England squad.

[quote="Butcher":2zwmne9e]For sure, that’s exactly what I meant really, that opposition supporters (welcome!) would consider Evalds or even Brierley in front of him, but Wakey fans know he’s a better player than either of them. However, he needs a brilliant season or two in SL to prove that to kick on and get in the England squad.[/quote:2zwmne9e] Again with respect , and that may be the case in a year or two , but I'm not sure many (other than Wakey fans) would consider him better than Niall at the moment. Yes , he's looked good this season , but there is a massive gulf in quality between SL and Championship rugby. Niall is proven at SL level and has been for some time now. I think Max has the ability to be a top class FB in time , he's just not there yet and needs regular SL experience to further improve and reach his full potential , something I am sure he will do in the future.

[quote="Another Cas Fan":9xtwey70]Again with respect , and that may be the case in a year or two , but I'm not sure many (other than Wakey fans) would consider him better than Niall at the moment. Yes , he's looked good this season , but there is a massive gulf in quality between SL and Championship rugby. Niall is proven at SL level and has been for some time now. I think Max has the ability to be a top class FB in time , he's just not there yet and needs regular SL experience to further improve and reach his full potential , something I am sure he will do in the future.[/quote:9xtwey70] One thing we never really struggled with in SL was full back. Max has always been fine at SL level. You’ll be very hard pressed to find any Trinty fan who see Max week in week out even consider a swap for Evalds or Brierly. That’s more to the point that Butcher was making. Other fans don’t see him week in and week out like we do. He’s already SL standard but to reach England level he just needs to tidy up a couple of areas. He’s not far away at all looking at the lack of English fullbacks in SL. There are certain parts to Jowitts game that would improve Evalds and vice versa at this time but hopefully Max can start to really shine this next few years and show the rest of SL what a lot of trinity fans believe he’s capable of.

[quote="Another Cas Fan":1v518wgu]Again with respect , and that may be the case in a year or two , but I'm not sure many (other than Wakey fans) would consider him better than Niall at the moment. Yes , he's looked good this season , but there is a massive gulf in quality between SL and Championship rugby. Niall is proven at SL level and has been for some time now. I think Max has the ability to be a top class FB in time , he's just not there yet and needs regular SL experience to further improve and reach his full potential , something I am sure he will do in the future.[/quote:1v518wgu] You may be right.......we'll find out soon enough. My money is on Max though.

[quote="PopTart":wqyll82n]I actually said he'd developed this part of his game. I also said his attack is as good if not better than anyone. So to use your oft used phrase, maybe you should go back and reread my post. Saying that, my point is, improving your line management in the championship is great, but it isn't SL. I'm sure he will develop further under Powell but I see this as an area he has to show his improvement this year. For England, he doesn't really have a lot of competition as most teams have an overseas full back. Welsby, Evalds, Hardaker at a push and Eckersley at Wigan as an outsider.[/quote:wqyll82n] Fair enough, ultimately how Max gets percieved will come down a lot to how the team performs as a whole. If we have a solid season and can get on the front foot enough to show some attacking plays and his skills then it will only help his cause. England full backs as you say are a rarity anyway so that only improves his chances. Sometimes luck or lack of it can play a part in players getting caps.

[quote="Another Cas Fan":h4jk6opj]Again with respect , and that may be the case in a year or two , but I'm not sure many (other than Wakey fans) would consider him better than Niall at the moment. Yes , he's looked good this season , but there is a massive gulf in quality between SL and Championship rugby. Niall is proven at SL level and has been for some time now. I think Max has the ability to be a top class FB in time , he's just not there yet and needs regular SL experience to further improve and reach his full potential , something I am sure he will do in the future.[/quote:h4jk6opj] Absolutely, your first point here is exactly the point I was making. Only Wakey fans think/know he’s a better all round full back than Evalds or Brierley, opposition fans don’t, which is why he needs a great couple of seasons to prove it. Where we disagree is that while Niall Evalds is a good player - great positioning and plenty of speed - he’s not as safe, skilful or creative as Jowitt. Of course we’ve been here all season saying and thinking ‘well Super League’s a different level’, but experience (Super 8s, Challenge Cup etc) shows you that the gap’s not that big between the full time Champ teams and the lower table SL teams, and the players that make them. We won 38 out of 40 games. I honestly don’t think Cas, Huddersfield, Hull or London’s squads would have done that. And Jowitt was our best player, and the league’s best player. Now he’s off to skin James Tedesco in the Ashes

[quote="Butcher":488fmvu6]Absolutely, your first point here is exactly the point I was making. Only Wakey fans think/know he’s a better all round full back than Evalds or Brierley, opposition fans don’t, which is why he needs a great couple of seasons to prove it. Where we disagree is that while Niall Evalds is a good player - great positioning and plenty of speed - he’s not as safe, skilful or creative as Jowitt. Of course we’ve been here all season saying and thinking ‘well Super League’s a different level’, but experience (Super 8s, Challenge Cup etc) shows you that the gap’s not that big between the full time Champ teams and the lower table SL teams, and the players that make them. We won 38 out of 40 games. I honestly don’t think Cas, Huddersfield, Hull or London’s squads would have done that. And Jowitt was our best player, and the league’s best player. Now he’s off to skin James Tedesco in the Ashes [/quote:488fmvu6] James Tedesco who? not fit to bring Max’s kicking tee out surely

I have confidence Max will stay. Whether he plays for England does not bother me as long as he keeps doing the business for us. IMO if Max maintains his progress with his defence, I wouldn't swap him for another fb in the game let alone SL. In response to previous comments Max was doing the business in SL years ago! AND he isn't a bad stand off!

All the postings have good points, but think on, max can afford not to sign & play out this season knowing he is on a free transfer @ the end of season, equally we as a club would have some thinking to do ? Maybe max is waiting to see if the RFL, grant him a benefit season this year ? This could be something he is waiting for ?

[quote="Start@1873":3usmkwll]All the postings have good points, but think on, max can afford not to sign & play out this season knowing he is on a free transfer @ the end of season, equally we as a club would have some thinking to do ? Maybe max is waiting to see if the RFL, grant him a benefit season this year ? This could be something he is waiting for ?[/quote:3usmkwll] As a doom monger, I'm not sure this is the one to cling to.

[quote="Start@1873":6mldaqn5]All the postings have good points, but think on, max can afford not to sign & play out this season knowing he is on a free transfer @ the end of season, equally we as a club would have some thinking to do ? Maybe max is waiting to see if the RFL, grant him a benefit season this year ? This could be something he is waiting for ?[/quote:6mldaqn5] He could...but I don't think Matt Ellis will play that game. If a player doesn't want to invest into his vision for the future, Ellis won't wait around wondering - he'll buy a replacement and move on.

Fair point. It's up to Max too on this. It's not just for us to pay no matter what. ......but personally I think he's worth a lot to us.

[quote="PopTart":icsxw8ze]Fair point. It's up to Max too on this. It's not just for us to pay no matter what. ......but personally I think he's worth a lot to us.[/quote:icsxw8ze] Yes, I agree. He can agree his worth with the club, or he can see what is on offer elsewhere. The new rules mean he can do that right now, no waiting, no messing. The club won't wait for ever though - if he plays a waiting game, I don't think Ellis will do the same.