A good read is"Defying Hitler" a memoir by Sebastion Haffner.

Quote: MatthewTrin "I'm sorry this assessment is just wrong. Lockdowns in reality have little to no impact on halting the spread of this virus. If you stop relying on assumptions and look at the actual data it supports my view. We know the number of days between infection to fatality is at least 23 days. So if you go back to the start, we entered into lockdown on 23 March 2020,this would mean the peak of the curve should be on or after 13 April 2020, but the actual daily death data (not the daily reported deaths!) shows it was on 8th April 2020. Deaths by 13th April had fallen from 900 a day on the 8th April to 690 a day and this downward trend continued daily even after non essential shops were allowed to reopen on 15 June. This decline cannot therefore be credited to any lockdowns. If you still don't believe I'm correct, check out the same curve found in Sweden. The graph shows it followed the exact course of the UK; raised exponentially and fell without a lockdown.'" Do you have a link to the source of the data you quoted? This? The UK death toll from the pandemic reaches 55, with the number of cases of the illness passing 1,500.[65] Prime Minister Boris Johnson advises everyone in the UK against "non-essential" travel and contact with others, to curb coronavirus, as well as to work from home if possible and avoid visiting social venues such as pubs, clubs or theatres. Pregnant women, people over the age of 70 and those with certain health conditions are urged to consider the advice "particularly important", and will be asked to self-isolate within days.[65] The Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport states "it is advised that large gatherings should not take place".[66] The government issues a call for businesses to support the supply of ventilators and ventilator components;[67] the NHS has access to 8,175 ventilators but it is thought that up to 30,000 may be needed.[68] The BBC delays its planned changes to TV licences for the over-75s from June to August because of the pandemic.[69] Theatres in London, as well as elsewhere around the UK, close following Boris Johnson's advice that people should avoid such venues.'" Guess what? 23 days from the 16th March is 8th April. It became clear that not enough people were following government advice, so a more strict lockdown was needed. I guess it depends on where you trust for you information really. Media reports with vested interest or actual scientific studies from across the globe. Source[/i Depends what price you put on lives I suppose. I'm sure not locking down protected the economy in Sweden though... or not. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronav ... 020-8?op=1

Quote: MatthewTrin "I'm sorry this assessment is just wrong. Lockdowns in reality have little to no impact on halting the spread of this virus. If you stop relying on assumptions and look at the actual data it supports my view. We know the number of days between infection to fatality is at least 23 days. So if you go back to the start, we entered into lockdown on 23 March 2020,this would mean the peak of the curve should be on or after 13 April 2020, but the actual daily death data (not the daily reported deaths!) shows it was on 8th April 2020. Deaths by 13th April had fallen from 900 a day on the 8th April to 690 a day and this downward trend continued daily even after non essential shops were allowed to reopen on 15 June. This decline cannot therefore be credited to any lockdowns. If you still don't believe I'm correct, check out the same curve found in Sweden. The graph shows it followed the exact course of the UK; raised exponentially and fell without a lockdown.'" Do you have a link to the source of the data you quoted? This? The UK death toll from the pandemic reaches 55, with the number of cases of the illness passing 1,500.[65] Prime Minister Boris Johnson advises everyone in the UK against "non-essential" travel and contact with others, to curb coronavirus, as well as to work from home if possible and avoid visiting social venues such as pubs, clubs or theatres. Pregnant women, people over the age of 70 and those with certain health conditions are urged to consider the advice "particularly important", and will be asked to self-isolate within days.[65] The Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport states "it is advised that large gatherings should not take place".[66] The government issues a call for businesses to support the supply of ventilators and ventilator components;[67] the NHS has access to 8,175 ventilators but it is thought that up to 30,000 may be needed.[68] The BBC delays its planned changes to TV licences for the over-75s from June to August because of the pandemic.[69] Theatres in London, as well as elsewhere around the UK, close following Boris Johnson's advice that people should avoid such venues.'" Guess what? 23 days from the 16th March is 8th April. It became clear that not enough people were following government advice, so a more strict lockdown was needed. I guess it depends on where you trust for you information really. Media reports with vested interest or actual scientific studies from across the globe. Source[/i Depends what price you put on lives I suppose. I'm sure not locking down protected the economy in Sweden though... or not. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronav ... 020-8?op=1

Why, why do you have so much blind faith in governments. I don't see what any government in my lifetime has ever done to warrent your complete subservience.
Just don't get it.
Why not share with us the governments, past and present, you most admire, maybe I'm missing something.

I think you may be beginning to struggle with your message ?

You mistake observation for subservience's.

I mentioned New Zealand as a success story in controlling the virus, which even you will struggle to argue with and pointed out that broadly speaking, they, along with most other countries have followed a similar path in trying to control it's spread, with restrictions on travel, social distancing and better hygiene practices, oh yeah and the wearing of face coverings.
They have been very successful, as have some other nations and are now getting back to "normal".

As I said, observation not subservience

They haven't been taken over by aliens or indeed, some higher authority following a recent conference on "world re set", they have got on in protecting their people from a VIRUS.

Despite their being some very poor governments and some that are downright corrupt across the globe, the vast majority are following a broadly similar path to NZ, with differing degrees of success.

To me it seems highly likely that most will need a vaccine to truly get on top of the situation but, your inference that EVERY government is awful and they are taking actions for reasons other than controlling the virus, comes straight from science fiction.
You've been putting great effort into trying to prove some dodgy theory of a new world order and it seems that this just isn't the case and is just pure conjecture by a group of people that take comfort in such things.

I've roamed the planet long enough to know that there will always be someone in power.
At least in a democracy, we have the chance, every few years, to make a change and quite honestly, this is as good as it gets. Again, not subservience, just reality.

History tells us that "we" will overcome the virus and the human species, despite creating many of it's own problems, are adept at solving these problems and history would suggest that we will indeed overcome. However, please carry on with your search for the new world order. Personally, I dont think it's coming, yet.

Happy to.

Bill and Melinda Gates co-sponsored Event 201 The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation granted at least $60-million to the Johns Hopkins University’s

We see from this that the economic and political effects of a pandemic were being carefully studied at the Rockefeller Foundation at least as early as 2010. More recently, a pandemic simulation took place at Event 201, which was hosted by the Johns Hopkins for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. This occurred six weeks before the first reported outbreak of the coronavirus. Almost to a tee, it followed the initial phase of the LOCK STEP scenario.

You may think this was a mere coincidence....I don't.

Lets just say John Hopkins University are hardly likely to bite the hand that feeds it just as Trin wouldn't have bitten the hand of Eric France plus maybe, just maybe, they have a vested interest when collating data? And we know how much bogus data there is around, don't we?

Also.

Over 600,000 Americans sign a petition this year for the White House to investigate Bill Gates for “medical malpractice” Five times the required amount necessary.
Now correct me if I'm out of order here but would you buy a second hand car from a guy with a say 60 or 600 or 6000, 60,000 ? or even 600,000 petition to investigate him?
My guess is you would not, just out of caution mind.
Lets just say I'm cautious, very, very cautious.

It's you that keeps referring to governments as an authority we should trust. I just want to know, from you, to share with us the governments, past and present, you most admire and more to the point trust.. Maybe I'm missing something, maybe I should trust governments more. Help me here, change my awfully skeptical viewpoint.

So far New Zealand