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Quote: Tommy Duckfingers "I thought "second season syndrome" was a generally accepted sporting phenominomininominom? How would you explain that? Granted it's not exactly the same as Smith is a seasoned pro and not a rookie breaking through but I think the wider point remains.'"



For me, second season syndrome when considering an individual is more about form than it is about being suppressed by extra defensive pressure. Once you've got 5 or 6 games under your belt theres enough video footage available for the opposition to analyse you and pick up on traits that they can exploit. That means you're going into games in your first season already under pressure, you can deal with it and still play well or you can't. if you can't then experience will help you improve but it very rarely, if ever, makes you worse.

Second season syndrome when considering a team has more credence IMO, like it or not psychology plays its part even in well prepared, professional elite sportsmen and the mental state of a team is different dependent upon the subconsciously perceived challenge/danger ahead of them. If in 2012 Wakefield are perceived to be push overs then with the best will in the world you won't reach the same heightened mental state of readiness that you will when facing Warrington for example. In 2013 the perception of the threat level carried by Wakefield will be greater and therefore opposition teams are more likely to attain a greater heightened mental preparedness. Remember at this level of elite sport a minute fraction of a percentage can manifest as a significant change one way or the other.

I was going to say IMO but actualy it's all scientifically proven.

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Quote: TRB "OK - I'm prepared to get shot down here - but why are so many of you so negative about what we can achieve this year?

Is it purely a matter of 'expect the worst and hope for the best' - if so, I can understand that, but I do think we have every reason to believe that we can go better than last year.

1 We have Poore / Lynne / Sykes / Lee Smith - from the start - which makes us stronger than this time last yesr.
2 We are settled
3 Our backup juniors are a year older
4 We only have one 'old man' and I wouldn't swap him for anyone in SL
5 We have perhaps the best SH in SL this year - on a par with Brough IMO
6 We have one of the best packs in SL IMO

OK, so there are reasons to believe that other squads will be better than last year, but for once, I'm looking up the table and not down it.

With a little luck, this year could be really exciting!
With you on this, it should be a great season, especially because of you're first point, much more strength in the starting 17 this year. Agree with you about Smith, he's pure class and I reckon he could be even better this year. Thinking about it our starting pack is quite exciting and lets hope we can keep them on the pitch together as much as possible this year.

Like Portart has said there's also some points of concern but there are many more positives to think about imo.

I think we'll get into the 8 by right this season not just because of Bradford's problems.

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While it's technically right to say we only got 8th because of Bradford being deducted their points, you must also remember they were only there because they were spending £100,000 more than they could afford each month (or whatever it was), I'm pretty sure that if we had overspent by that amount we would have been higher up the table too!

I think we'll end up in a group of teams battling for 7-9th this season and I'd be happy with that.

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Hopefully with a bit more consistency we can match what we achieved last year.
Its very unlikely that we'll win 7 on trot again therefore we need to hit the ground running, whilst still having plenty in the tank for the end of season.

The things to look forward to on the field (Smith+Pack) and the question marks around the team (ability to defend from kicks+teams knowing us) have been mentioned.

I am just looking forward to competing with most teams this year, and having a chance in each match.. winning some games and losing some, whilst seeing some decent rugby.

Role on bradford away.

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Quote: Slugger McBatt "I think 7th is very doable. I'm not sure Hull KR will be stronger this year, and Bradford under an ex-assistant might struggle early on. Catalan might slip down the rankings too, and Huddersfield, with new unproven coaches (one of whom took Huddersfield on a slide right down the table). London could be the surprise package under Tony Rea, because they have a decent squad, and he has always done a good job in the past with them.

For me, the team of the year will be Saints. Add Nathan Brown and Willie Manu to what they already have and I think there is something pretty good there. Wigan are consistent but blow it on the crucial ones, and I just think the Wire backbone is getting a little old. Top 4 will be Saints, Wigan, Leeds and Wire, with Hull getting fifth. I think we are reasonably in the pack for the next 3 places, with as good a shot as all of them, and arguably in a more settled position than Bulls, Huddersfield and Catalan. Cas and Widnes scrapping for the bottom again.

As always, September will prove that I'm talking rubbish.'"

Huddersfield with new unproven coach, one of whom took Huddersfield down table? Aren't you forgetting that Nathan Brown who you sem to think is going to be the flavour of the season at saints was the man in charge when slide started. By the way I hope you do have a good season, but hope giants have a better one.

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Quote: Grezzler "If Cas make the 8 I'll 8 my hat. The way we dominated them when the team clicked strongly suggests the same will happen this season. Cas for the wooden spoon !!!'"


You mean like we did when we kicked your ass on Good Friday at your place.

Just think you guys are carrying too much faith in Mr Agar....second season syndrome me thinks icon_wink.gif

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Quote: nullius in verba "Huddersfield with new unproven coach, one of whom took Huddersfield down table? Aren't you forgetting that Nathan Brown who you sem to think is going to be the flavour of the season at saints was the man in charge when slide started. By the way I hope you do have a good season, but hope giants have a better one.'"


It does seem that he lost the dressing room, but most coaches do eventually. What is apparent that your improvement was immediately apparent when Nathan Brown came on board, and your mid-season slumps usually coincided with Nathan Brown announcing he was going home at the end the season. Perhaps he just lost his authority when the players knew he was going. They certainly thought they knew best at the semi-final and look where it got them.

I think you might be in the scrap for the 6th to 8th position, but that isn't where you have been the last few years.

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This 2nd season syndrome can also be an advantage, just watch any opposition next season who in a close final 10 minutes with the scores equal be running out to smother Sykesy from a field goal attempt, this will then show gaps in other parts of the pitch, We will have learnt from last season & probably put a bit of doubt in to opposing teams minds, in fact on the warm ups before kick off we should have Sykesy practicing 1 pointers !

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Some of what Tim Smith does is undefendable - how do you coach to defend that Benji Marshall style, no-look pass he threw on Sunday to put Wildie away for example? He also seems, despite his ungainly running style, to have a step off either foot that will leave a few standing.

The long, cut-out pass might be a different animal - I guess if you're defending outside him there might be an opportunity to intercept, but it takes bottle and has to be executed right; getting it wrong will be costly.

One thing's for sure - if he carries on where he left off last season, he could easily be one of the most exciting players in SL and certainly, one of the best hb's; on song, he's easily as good as Broughy and not far off Dureau and Gower, albeit with different strengths to the latter two - I'd say his kicking game is weaker, but he's a far better passer of the ball.

Tim Smith - the Wakefield Wizard and subject of my new man-crush.

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For me the halves are the key. Sykes was a revelation for me at 6 last year, showing career best form and in my opinion a little unlucky not to get International recognition.

Smith was also excellent but my concern with him is he has a history if struggling when the pressure and focus is on him. I think he thrives in the big fish small pond mentality and his form last year will mean he will be under more pressure this.

The fact he is a passing half rather than a line breaker will increase the importance of his team mates and coach. At times during his Wigan career he was targeted and went missing as he had no support runners and this affected his confidence. I hope he gets the support runners this year.

I see no reason why top 8 is not realistic. In my opinion 7th down will be a real dog fight and I see no reason why Wakefield should not be in the mix for that.

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Quote: jonh "For me the halves are the key. Sykes was a revelation for me at 6 last year, showing career best form and in my opinion a little unlucky not to get International recognition.

Smith was also excellent but my concern with him is he has a history if struggling when the pressure and focus is on him. I think he thrives in the big fish small pond mentality and his form last year will mean he will be under more pressure this.

The fact he is a passing half rather than a line breaker will increase the importance of his team mates and coach. At times during his Wigan career he was targeted and went missing as he had no support runners and this affected his confidence. I hope he gets the support runners this year.

I see no reason why top 8 is not realistic. In my opinion 7th down will be a real dog fight and I see no reason why Wakefield should not be in the mix for that.'"


Sykes has had a mixed career, I certainly never rated him but there is no doubt he looked like the consummate play making Stand Off in the second half of the season. It was like it had all finally clicked for the lad, and I don't think he will look back from this point. However as you know UK RL is not great at recognising late developers so I doubt he will gain any honours other than at club level.

Without wanting to sound flippant so long as Smith keeps taking the pills he will be OK. When at Wigan he was undiagnosed. Now he is under treatment he should be able to cope as well as anyone else. He certainly showed no signs of feeling the pressure even when he wasn't playing well at the start of the season.

I also think the maturity that Sykes now has takes a lot of pressure off Smith - Sykes looks like he could play all day without breaking sweat.

I actually think Sykes would be the bigger loss if injured as he would also compliment John, Goulding, Wildie and the rest.

Sykes and Smith are a quality partnership.

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I don't think Smith has ever cracked under pressure. His illness is not (in my view) related to pressure, it's just been highlighted because when he did do something wrong the Aussie media had eyes on him. He hasn't caved in a game situation.

Sykes has shown good form at both London and Bradford in the past. It's not new, it has just been interupted in my opinion with switching positions and possibly different coaches. I remember the Bradford fans loving it when he was moved to stand off but they didn't keep him there.

In terms of Smith being targeted, his game helps him there because he plays away from the front line a lot. He has already worked his magic by the time the defenders are near.
I do worry that when he takes the line on he will get some late hits but that needs to be handled by him but also by the rest of the team showing that it is not appropriate and it will hurt if you try it.

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Quote: PopTart "I don't think Smith has ever cracked under pressure. His illness is not (in my view) related to pressure, it's just been highlighted because when he did do something wrong the Aussie media had eyes on him. He hasn't caved in a game situation.

Sykes has shown good form at both London and Bradford in the past. It's not new, it has just been interupted in my opinion with switching positions and possibly different coaches. I remember the Bradford fans loving it when he was moved to stand off but they didn't keep him there.

In terms of Smith being targeted, his game helps him there because he plays away from the front line a lot. He has already worked his magic by the time the defenders are near.
I do worry that when he takes the line on he will get some late hits but that needs to be handled by him but also by the rest of the team showing that it is not appropriate and it will hurt if you try it.'"


Sorry but I think you are wrong regarding Smith. He did crack whilst in Australia. Knowing someone who is bi-polar pressure most definitely affects them more adversely than most people. As you say he hasn't cracked in a game but the treatment he now gets will help him concentrate.

There is no stigma to this in my eyes, none of us are built perfectly - with some it's physical with others it's in the mind. In the same way knees can be rebuilt or rectified so can minds. IMHO his treatment has improved his game.

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Quote: vastman "Sorry but I think you are wrong regarding Smith. He did crack whilst in Australia. Knowing someone who is bi-polar pressure most definitely affects them more adversely than most people. As you say he hasn't cracked in a game but the treatment he now gets will help him concentrate.

There is no stigma to this in my eyes, none of us are built perfectly - with some it's physical with others it's in the mind. In the same way knees can be rebuilt or rectified so can minds. IMHO his treatment has improved his game.'"


I can't really argue knowledgeably on the subject but all I was meaning is that as I saw it, he did something that his "disorder" would have caused whether he was a rugby player or not. It's just it was more highlighted because of who he was.

Clearly i really don't know his personal life but I'm pleased he seems to be enjoying his rugby and handling his medical issues now.

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Quote: jungle man "You mean like we did when we kicked your ass on Good Friday at your place.

Just think you guys are carrying too much faith in Mr Agar....second season syndrome me thinks
your victory on Good Friday was a long long time ago. If that's the only positive you are taking in to this season I'd be worried.

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