RL has survived all this time, so why by not expanding will it die? Throwing millions away on poorly supported teams isn't going to do the the RFLs coffers and thus it's survival very much is it?
As for our gates being not much more, are you having a laugh? Our gates are much higher, as I said previously we suffer because of our "1960s Liberian ground" but we have tried over the years to do something about it, equally our previous owner didn't help encourage fans to come.
But even still our lowest gates against teams with little or in the case of London, Catalan and Crusaders (practically no traveling support) still double Saturday nights attendance or the massive amount that flicked to the London v Crusaders game the week before.
So as far as I can see your talking out of the back of your head.
Apologies if you think thats hypocritical, but I just dont see what value Crusaders (and London for that matter) bring to the competition.

Are we really in a position to criticise another teams attendances and their standard of rugby?

Yes we are.

Really? Short memories some folk.

I don't think it's a case of short memorys really.
I think it's a sense of ever growing resentment that a club with little support and little value to add to the competition is being made to look the mutts nuts at the expense of us.
We have our problems and they are mostly of our own doing I accept that, but there are clubs in a worse state than us, but they are looked to be protected by the RFL.
I have no animosity tirades the club or their supporters just the system and those that wield the power.
What value is to be gained by other SL clubs when almost half of visiting clubs bring hardly any support?

The thing is expansion is here to stay and there is nothing we can do about that. Rather than picking holes in others application we should be looking to make the most of our own application. Like it or not we have had plenty of time to get our own house in order but have not, for whatever reason, been able to. Maybe now we have the management in place to move us forward lets just hope it's not to late.

But because the system is so transparently uneven, it is what we are left to do.
The frustration that no matter what you do and how good your application is, a team that is unsustainable and unnecessary will always beet you because of where it is, I find very frustrating.
Like I said before my animosity is towards those that set the rules not those who are governed by it.

I can see why people are unhappy with it, I feel the RFL's policy is misguided too. However, I don't think we're in the best position to do something that serves to add to animosity and draw attention to our own shortcomings. During our recent turmoil, we've had a fair amount of sympathy from fans of other clubs, and sniping can undermine that. As a club & supporters, our energies are best put behind our team in whatever way we can.

As for the wider issue of resentment towards the way things are done, it amazes me how much griping goes on which isn't channelled towards a more organised attempt to influence the RFL's policy. If fans lobbied hard, eiether through clubs, ISAs or a campaign directly to the RFL, they might at least force the RFL into something like a more open dialogue over the best way to develop the game for the future.

The rights or wrongs of our club has nothing whatsoever to do with Wrexham. Both are totally different issues.

Now back to Wrexham, it is not working and it will never work. The sooner that people realise this failed experiment is a bottomless money pit the better.
Infact Wrexham is holding back expansion. It is taking funds from the game that would be much better spent elsewhere. I would sooner see the money we are throwing at that failed club go to the scorpians or scholars where it would do some good and help grow the game properly from the grass roots upwards.

Prior to the start of last season I posted on here with regards a friend in South Wales stating the RL thing had little of interest with all the RU goings on at Magners League and International level with the general sporting public.

I got crucified on here just posting that simple thought from a local,Since then club failed in South Wales and is now struggling in North Wales which in my view am not bothered as my club is WTW.

After watching last nights game I see that the RL want expansion(which I firstly thought was fine) but again where are the Welsh names in the team,They are still a team full of Antipodeans and with 2/3 still more awaiting visas how in the world does this strengthen the home nations squads.

Again i'm just stating realism and facts not elaborating rumours etc.

Well said your 100% right.

In realistic terms, 5,000 isn't really much higher than 2,500. Neither are acceptable figures for top level competition. Crusaders actually averaged around 5,000 last year without the two games in Neath, the crowds may drop this year but that's still however many people who otherwise wouldn't have been watching the game. If you don't see how expansion clubs contribute to the competition, then there is really no point trying to debate with you. Just take my word for it that they do Are you for real?
£50,000 plus add on's such as food, drinks and merchandise isn't much, to a club that run up £2.2M in debt.
That is the attitude of failure, no business can afford to think like that if it wants to be successful. Under our previous administration supporters were given good reason not to come through dissatisfaction at the way the club was run, and as a result we were put in serious financial results as a result.
However there is no evidence at all to back up the assumption that the people of either north or south Wales will pay to see professional rugby league so the costs are quite beyond what an experimental club can generate.
Baring in mind that it still owes significant money to the RFL and will be minus some of it's SKY money for the next four years I think you are either oblivious or have some degree of certainty that the crusaders will be protected.
If it is the latter then that is what gets others backs up.

They averaged just over 4,500. But to the back end of the season their attendances significantly dropped. They got a good opening day crowd against Leeds 10k+ but this year only got 2,500. Swings and roundabouts i guess