FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > Wildcat Dolls |
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| Quote: bellycouldtackle "Wild Thing and KK you need to look at the bigger picture as perfectly highlighted in DLanghams post. A club needs to engage with its community. The dance teams were great, it was not uncommon to see up to 100 youngsters dancing on match days, engaging them and their parents with the club.'"
... and only the pro event dancers can do that?
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| Quote: DLangham "There are a few points raised in this thread which are certainly misunderstood!
The dolls, yes did get paid, a very small amount for the hard work they put in. This however, did not come close to the money made by the ticket sales on a matchday. The profit the dolls made for the club on a through ticket sales far outweighed their payment. This therefore ends the 'we can't afford them' argument, as they did not cost the club anything. The experience the dolls have gained over the past 8 years of selling tickets at many different kinds of events - rugby, football, boxing - makes them more than perfect for the job, and would make them far better than any random stood at the side of the street. The girls are instantly recognisable when doing this job and many people go to specific girls to get their tickets every week.
My niece has been a member of the wildcat kittens for many years run by Sarah Elston and won't be returning now the dolls are not running it anymore. They gave the children brilliant opportunities, most recently arranging for the children to do three world cup games, representing wakefield wildcats! This kind of exposure makes more girls want to become involved in the academy, bringing in more class money and ticket money. The dance academy and all other community work the girls have done brings in ticket sales to games every week - there is the added benefit of community work.
There may be other 'younger girls' which would jump at the chance of being the wakefield wildcat dancers, but many others complain that dancers under 21 is a bit 'seedy' - a point which i don't agree with, as it depends which way you're looking at it. i personally am appreciating the dancing, not looking at them in THAT WAY. The dolls have danced at all home games every season for the past 8 years, so commenting that they do more other events than events at wakefield doesn't even make sense. They can't do more wakefield events if there aren't any!
Although i realise this has been a bit of an essay. The most important point i would like to make is that you're all talking about a group of girls that like to dance! They all auditioned to be part of the wakefield wildcats cheerleading team because they wanted to dance for the club because they are interested in rugby, and all some of you can do is talk negative about them! They're young girls who don't deserve to have all this talk about them, let them just do what they like to do, which is dance!
As for staff at wakefield wildcats - a) Sarah Elston left her post to pursue a different career - she was not booted out. b) yes other staff have left - and from what i've heard the past couple of week i don't blame them!'"
How much were the club charged for the Dolls services?
This is the point that is important, nobody that i have read on here has criticised the dancing girls (and especially not the kittens) just the Dolls (the brand) in general and the link to one director and his wife.
I think even someone who is so involved as you are (and can see the benefits, both in terms of matchday sales and just enjoyment and pleasure the girls get) can see that with the reckless nature of the management under James and Andrew with the willingness to unpay people for their work and services doesnt show much about their accountability.
Therefore i wouldn't be surprised if this was trousering the Dolls owners a fair wedge, because nobody was watching the detail.
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| You being a moderator should know you cannot make aspersions based on heresay. You admit you have no idea of what they cost but then go on to suggest that a member of staff "probably trousered a large wedge"
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| Quote: Khlav Kalash "... and only the pro event dancers can do that?'"
Exactly.
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| Quote: Agent XIII "You being a moderator should know you cannot make aspersions based on heresay. You admit you have no idea of what they cost but then go on to suggest that a member of staff "probably trousered a large wedge"'"
The club was charged a fee for the dolls, therfore it is not heresay, nobody has yet come out with an official line on the figure yet, so to suggest someone has trousered a fair wedge is factually correct.
Unless you are saying this was done for free?
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| As previously posted by others I am sure that local dance troupes would love to contribute on match days. My preference however would be to see local junior rugby clubs playing on the pitch at half time.
It's good news to me that the Elston link to the club is finally over as all I saw was a 'whats in it for me' attitude from them both and the constant talk of their 'freebies' on twitter was becoming tiresome.
That said I thought the dancers were hardworking on match days and deserve our thanks for their efforts
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| It is not factually correct because you have no idea who paid what. If you have then back up your claim because at the moment it is only an assumption and could lead the site open to possible legal action. You as a moderator should know that better than anyone.
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| Quote: DLangham "As for staff at wakefield wildcats - a) Sarah Elston left her post to pursue a different career - she was not booted out.'"
She should have been.
Just to point out, Elston (or Robinson) started life as dancer for Cas, moved to get her knockers out for a mens magazine then moved over to Wakefield as a dancer too. How many dancers within the Dolls banner go from dancing to a role within the club (can't remember all the titles she has held) to the then as high up the chain as Projects & Events Manager. Would she have got as far within the club without the influence of her husband ? No I doubt it too.
Whilst the "Dolls" have been a success for the club and I'm not talking anything negative here about any of them who "just wanted to dance with an interest in rugby". They all started as Wakefield Wildcats Dancers working for fun, as Elston's role grew so did the Dolls brand. I heard the figure £450 (could be right could be wrong) was paid for each game, which isn't a bad mark up for something that started for free and for a bit of fun. I'm sure that was paid to Brand Beckham, sorry Elston and how that was distributed between the dancers, god knows. All I'm saying is Elston has done damn well out of Wakefield Trinity Wildcats over the years and to take her bat and ball away (the Dolls) to pursue a different career sort of backs up the scenario that she was in it for herself.
Just for the record, the rumours I have heard is Louie Spence is coming to take over the dance group for 2014, that should be fun.
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| Quote: wtid71 "As previously posted by others I am sure that local dance troupes would love to contribute on match days. My preference however would be to see local junior rugby clubs playing on the pitch at half time.
It's good news to me that the Elston link to the club is finally over as all I saw was a 'whats in it for me' attitude from them both and the constant talk of their 'freebies' on twitter was becoming tiresome.
That said I thought the dancers were hardworking on match days and deserve our thanks for their efforts'"
This....
And I don't think any of it is negative to anyone.
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| Quote: Roonaldo6 "She should have been.
Just to point out, Elston (or Robinson) started life as dancer for Cas, moved to get her knockers out for a mens magazine then moved over to Wakefield as a dancer too. How many dancers within the Dolls banner go from dancing to a role within the club (can't remember all the titles she has held) to the then as high up the chain as Projects & Events Manager. Would she have got as far within the club without the influence of her husband ? No I doubt it too.
Whilst the "Dolls" have been a success for the club and I'm not talking anything negative here about any of them who "just wanted to dance with an interest in rugby". They all started as Wakefield Wildcats Dancers working for fun, as Elston's role grew so did the Dolls brand. I heard the figure £450 (could be right could be wrong) was paid for each game, which isn't a bad mark up for something that started for free and for a bit of fun. I'm sure that was paid to Brand Beckham, sorry Elston and how that was distributed between the dancers, god knows. All I'm saying is Elston has done damn well out of Wakefield Trinity Wildcats over the years and to take her bat and ball away (the Dolls) to pursue a different career sort of backs up the scenario that she was in it for herself.
Just for the record, the rumours I have heard is Louie Spence is coming to take over the dance group for 2014, that should be fun.
IF the dolle (or Mrs Elston) were paid £450 per home game for entertaining the crowd and they sold tickets in excess of this figure then, there is a major over reaction here.
Other costs have been intimated but not made public (on this forum) and on the face of it Mrs Elston has been slaughtered because of who she was married to and not for the work done with the dolls.
The cost may well have increased over the years but, we have gone from having 10-12 girls dancing at half time etc, to having large numbers involved and whatever else may have gone on, up until the brown stuff hitting the fan, most people seemed more than happy with the dolls and all that accompanied this group.
Unless someone can put some numbers on here, it may be time to draw a line under the doll bashing ?
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| Quote: bellycouldtackle "Wild Thing and KK you need to look at the bigger picture as perfectly highlighted in DLanghams post. A club needs to engage with its community. The dance teams were great, it was not uncommon to see up to 100 youngsters dancing on match days, engaging them and their parents with the club.'"
You clearly have not read my post. To clarify. Young girls can still take dance classes twice a week at the club. These girls will still be performing at games. It's the older paid dancers that no longer have a link to the club as this was a separate entity run by Sarah. She still runs this group but no longer uses the Wildcat Doll name.
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| Quote: Agent XIII "It is not factually correct because you have no idea who paid what. If you have then back up your claim because at the moment it is only an assumption and could lead the site open to possible legal action. You as a moderator should know that better than anyone.'"
The club were charged for the use of the dolls that is a fact, how much was paid is irrelevant, but it was paid to a company run by an employee of the club that is also a fact.
If you know otherwise, you need to substantiate that.
If you have a problem with my moderating take it up with site admin.
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| Quote: Roonaldo6 "She should have been.
Just to point out, Elston (or Robinson) started life as dancer for Cas, moved to get her knockers out for a mens magazine then moved over to Wakefield as a dancer too. How many dancers within the Dolls banner go from dancing to a role within the club (can't remember all the titles she has held) to the then as high up the chain as Projects & Events Manager. Would she have got as far within the club without the influence of her husband ? No I doubt it too.
Whilst the "Dolls" have been a success for the club and I'm not talking anything negative here about any of them who "just wanted to dance with an interest in rugby". They all started as Wakefield Wildcats Dancers working for fun, as Elston's role grew so did the Dolls brand. I heard the figure £450 (could be right could be wrong) was paid for each game, which isn't a bad mark up for something that started for free and for a bit of fun. I'm sure that was paid to Brand Beckham, sorry Elston and how that was distributed between the dancers, god knows. All I'm saying is Elston has done damn well out of Wakefield Trinity Wildcats over the years and to take her bat and ball away (the Dolls) to pursue a different career sort of backs up the scenario that she was in it for herself.
Just for the record, the rumours I have heard is Louie Spence is coming to take over the dance group for 2014, that should be fun.
Bit over the top in my opinion.
She was paid by the club for doing a job. There is no evidence that she pocketed money she did not earn.
If she does the job of events manager, she should be paid for it.
Doesn't matter who got her the job. She should be judged on performance same as we all are that work for a living on here.
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| Just for roonaldos sake it's been corrected before but SE was employed by Steve Ferres not JE
When DL was promoted she managed the community trust JE was not even at the club when this happened.
If it's £450 divided by 15-20 girls I don't think that goes that far To creat a wedge.
What I do know from experience is that running the dance academy with 100's of parent contacting you is not easy I do it for junior football and get in undated by 15 parents asking questions at all hours.
I would suggest with season ticket sales kids paying for dance classes and parents buying ticket shirts and becoming fans. And the RL doubles sales
Positives far out way the negatives for the club hence as Jason points out they are keeping it going.
Langham points out they were at Headingley warrington for World Cup all after sE had left the club And would be no longer paid which shows she cared about the kids not a quick buck.
Rather than having a go at individual who set it up a blue print it seems all clubs have copied. Why dont we just thank her for her work and wish her well.
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| Quote: Cooleo "Just for roonaldos sake it's been corrected before but SE was employed by Steve Ferres not JE
When DL was promoted she managed the community trust JE was not even at the club when this happened.
If it's £450 divided by 15-20 girls I don't think that goes that far To creat a wedge.
What I do know from experience is that running the dance academy with 100's of parent contacting you is not easy I do it for junior football and get in undated by 15 parents asking questions at all hours.
I would suggest with season ticket sales kids paying for dance classes and parents buying ticket shirts and becoming fans. And the RL doubles sales
Positives far out way the negatives for the club hence as Jason points out they are keeping it going.
Langham points out they were at Headingley warrington for World Cup all after sE had left the club And would be no longer paid which shows she cared about the kids not a quick buck.
Rather than having a go at individual who set it up a blue print it seems all clubs have copied. Why dont we just thank her for her work and wish her well.'"
THIS!
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