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Quote: coco the fullback "Absolutely. I aren't even an expert in making my own breakfast ( burnt toast again) Anyone can hold any belief they wish. The thought police have not arrived yet. The level of proof required is totally up to the individual including zero evidence.

Being sceptical and asking questions is always a good position.

However, if you wish for someone else to believe what you do, then you need to match their level of evidence and proof.

Some people believe in ghosts, which is fine, fill your boots. I don't believe in ghosts because I have never seen any evidence that has convinced me of their existence. If someone wants me to believe in ghosts they're going to have to provide my level of proof.'"


Surely then by this logic the government have to provide proof to the people of the UK that the NHS is on the brink of being overwhelmed by this virus as they keep claiming. All the government do is give diktat by showing a lack of supportive statistics to support most of their claims. I'm sorry but I will not accept a positive PCR test or a mathematical model as factual evidence. Interestingly when substantiated proof was recently requested in Manchester it was found the number of patients in hospital was lower than this time last year!

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Quote: MatthewTrin "From what I've read on this thread I don't believe anyone is categorically denying the existence of this virus. I think people like myself are concerned with number of failed protective measures implemented by the "experts" that we are suspect are being used as an exploitative power grab to usher in a new order either consciously or sub consciously. I myself am not a denier I would describe my stance as a sceptic.'"

It was never intended as a dig at anyone specific. I lived and breathed this for 5 months on ICU, where the guidelines were constantly changed to suit What ever PPE was available at the time. I too am a sceptic of the use of masks, as a lot of research around the beginning of the year suggested it is actually very ineffective due to constant touching of the face ie repositioning with hands on face then touching whatever before and after, plus the added fact I believe the blue surgical masks actually have an effective period against surgical diathermy smoke of around 4 minutes, never mind against a virus. What I do agree with is that this whole year has had a catastrophic effect on people’s mental health, and if it means people feel more safe leaving their homes Wearing a mask in order to do what ever is important to them then so be it.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "It certainly is infectious.
One of my lads pals, early 20's, although not critical by any means, is pretty ill with a positive covid diagnosis.
It really hacks me off to have the folk denying it's existence, looking for bizarre reasons to blame everything from the Chinese to 5G, just so that they can justify not covering their face or washing their hands.

We can argue all day about the government response and there is no absolute right way to control the spread, apart form a coordinated FULL lockdown for a couple of weeks (no movement, shopping, flights, holidays, schools), which would cause it to disappear but, alas, this is never, ever going to be possible but, to deny something that has killed so many people is just bloody sick and despite the endless "have you seen this" or, "what do you think of that" ought to be left to the sci fi fraternity.'"


I get blamed, no, correction, it's a smear campaign plain and simple, for being a conspiracy theorist or spreading fake news then when I go to the
The s for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) which is a national public health institute in the United States. It is a United States federal agency, under the Department of Health and Human Services, and is headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia.. whose main goal is to protect public health and safety through the control and prevention of disease, injury, and disability in the US and internationally.

I am now rubbished in favour of a few anecdotes when I myself have been rubbished for my anecdotes by being asked to back it up with scientific evidence . The difference being my anecdotes are of a positive nature yet you lot give only negative feedback even when faced with bona fide scientific evidence.

I did not say I agreed with it I asked for those who rubbish me to look at it and “pick the bones” out of it. Convince me it is wrong, explaine where I may be misreading something in there But no, you can't be bothered and ignore it in favour of “one of my pals” etc.

I respectfully ask you to look at a quite astonishing piece of evidence from the respected CDC in order for you to make up your own minds and still you are in denial preferring your anecdote to a scientific study and quite beyond belief you compare the CDC to the “sci fi fraternity”. Bizarre reasons,Chinese and 5G when I have mentioned non of that.
And now I am sick for going into the heart of a scientific study.

Non of you can even point, though I have asked many times, to back up your claims that I promote fake news or conspiracy theories or in the case of speed read the first line PopTart that I quote "liars"

Never have I come across such a bunch of hypocrites in my whole life.

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Did anyone watch the heated argument on talkRadio between Dan Wooten and MP Chris Bryant for Rhondda in South Wales?

MP Bryant was kicking off claiming that the ICU is currently 75% full compared to this time last year only being half that percentage.

The average occupancy rate for intensive care in his area, The Royal Glamorgan Hospital, over the course of last year was 79.8%.

https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/ ... -specialty

Does anyone know why he is likely lying? Or can you point out why my stats are wrong and Bryant is correct?
Did anyone watch the heated argument on talkRadio between Dan Wooten and MP Chris Bryant for Rhondda in South Wales?

MP Bryant was kicking off claiming that the ICU is currently 75% full compared to this time last year only being half that percentage.

The average occupancy rate for intensive care in his area, The Royal Glamorgan Hospital, over the course of last year was 79.8%.

https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/ ... -specialty

Does anyone know why he is likely lying? Or can you point out why my stats are wrong and Bryant is correct?


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Quote: MatthewTrin "Did anyone watch the heated argument on talkRadio between Dan Wooten and MP Chris Bryant for Rhondda in South Wales?

MP Bryant was kicking off claiming that the ICU is currently 75% full compared to this time last year only being half that percentage.

The average occupancy rate for intensive care in his area, The Royal Glamorgan Hospital, over the course of last year was 79.8%.


Don't hold your breath for an answer on here.

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If people are arguing that Covid-19 is not infectious, then can someone explain, in the simplest terms, why just about every country in the world has decided to impose restrictions that have devastated their economies and will do for a long time to come? It would only take a few to step out of line and say, "we're fine, it's not infectious, come and do business here, send your tourists, buy our currency" and they would become much more powerful.

As for the argument about smartphones, most technological advances have a flipside. The internet is one of the world's greatest inventions. It helps us so much in our daily lives, from having all the information you need at your fingertips to booking holidays and to the amount of streaming entertainment available. But it comes at a cost, because all the loons in the world have a voice and access to an audience, so of course some regulation is required. It has always been the same with all technological advances. The car was invented, so we had to invent speed limits to cut death rates.

Smartphones entertain and inform people. Companies want to monetise that entertainment. Someone invents electricity so someone works out how to make electronic billboards. Not everything is a conspiracy. Sometimes, it is just the checks and balances that make the world keep turning.

But if someone sees everything as some huge masterplan, they will interpret everything in that context.

What I see is people dying and becoming ill from a respiratory illness. Also, I see some people who have been in contact with those ill people also become ill. That is the very definition of infectious. It doesn't seem difficult to grasp.

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Quote: Slugger McBatt "If people are arguing that Covid-19 is not infectious, then can someone explain, in the simplest terms, why just about every country in the world has decided to impose restrictions that have devastated their economies and will do for a long time to come? It would only take a few to step out of line and say, "we're fine, it's not infectious, come and do business here, send your tourists, buy our currency" and they would become much more powerful.'"


Look through the thread, the subject has been covered extensively.

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Quote: Miro "Look through the thread, the subject has been covered extensively.'"


I did, and your premise seems to be flawed.

On the one hand, you argue that Covid isn't infectious. On the other, you say that Covid is a capitalist reset, designed for the rich countries to redesign capitalism.

Those two positions are incompatible, as if Covid is not infectious, then there can be no pandemic, so capitalism cannot be reset. It has to be infectious for the window of opportunity to open.

It could only be compatible if either:
a) it is infectious but is a deliberate plot by rich nations.
The problem with this theory is that you would think they would have tipped off the President of the USA and the British Prime Minister.
The Trump issue is particularly problematic, as he has been very dismissive of Covid, so it is in his interests to say he has never had it and never will.
b) it is not infectious but all the people are being misdiagnosed.
This doesn't work at all as an option.

The problem with theories about capitalist leaders engaging in conspiracies is that you are dealing with people who are ruthless and greedy, thus meaning that it would fail as it relies on everyone sticking together in a common cause, despite the greater hardships it might cause some of them, which is in fact the definition of socialism, the exact opposite of capitalism, and thus doomed to fail.

Put simply, what you see will depend on which lens to look through, and you can see anything if you want to see it enough.

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Quote: Slugger McBatt "I did, and your premise seems to be flawed.

On the one hand, you argue that Covid isn't infectious. On the other, you say that Covid is a capitalist reset, designed for the rich countries to redesign capitalism.

Those two positions are incompatible, as if Covid is not infectious, then there can be no pandemic, so capitalism cannot be reset. It has to be infectious for the window of opportunity to open.

It could only be compatible if either

Thank you for your interest.
I don't believe I have argued that “covid” is not infectious. I may have questioned it very strongly and even argued that it is a version of flu but for me it's not the big issue anymore. The covid debate is a red herring for the smoke screen.
But I never let things go completely if you are referring to the CDC evidence that just shows I am simply keeping abreast of any developments.

I have said that I believe covid (and the argument has already been done as to just what covid is) is a smokescreen for a re set of the world economy as stated by the World Economic Forum, though they use the word “opportunity” again already explained.

Tipped off the UK Prime Minister? No, they are pulling his strings, just like every PM before him. Blair being a prime example.
As for Trump? I have no clue, I stay clear of anything to do with him. But I will ask this, is he a puppet of the deep state? or a thorn in their side. Is he there to play devils advocate? You choose. He is a proven liar so what can you say?
That takes care of a)

b) People are being misdiagnosed. Again look through the thread for details. Fact, not an opinion.

Again, As I clearly stated elsewhere that in my opinion (the re-set) it is doomed to fail. However, not before great damage is done to the world economy. There are opinions that point to communism rather than socialism being the eventual outcome. Hence the need to destroy the middle class, something that is progressing apace as we speak.

You say:
“The problem with theories about capitalist leaders engaging in conspiracie is ….....”

What do you mean theories.......My theory???? Study Event 201. Note the attendees.

You say:
“Put simply, what you see will depend on which lens to look through, and you can see anything if you want to see it enough.”

Hmm. Nice xmas cracker wisdom but not sure I agree with that. In fact I don't agree with that. If that was the case I've been looking at Wakefield Trinity through the wrong lens for a flaming long time.

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Quote: Slugger McBatt "If people are arguing that Covid-19 is not infectious, then can someone explain, in the simplest terms, why just about every country in the world has decided to impose restrictions that have devastated their economies and will do for a long time to come? It would only take a few to step out of line and say, "we're fine, it's not infectious, come and do business here, send your tourists, buy our currency" and they would become much more powerful.

As for the argument about smartphones, most technological advances have a flipside. The internet is one of the world's greatest inventions. It helps us so much in our daily lives, from having all the information you need at your fingertips to booking holidays and to the amount of streaming entertainment available. But it comes at a cost, because all the loons in the world have a voice and access to an audience, so of course some regulation is required. It has always been the same with all technological advances. The car was invented, so we had to invent speed limits to cut death rates.

Smartphones entertain and inform people. Companies want to monetise that entertainment. Someone invents electricity so someone works out how to make electronic billboards. Not everything is a conspiracy. Sometimes, it is just the checks and balances that make the world keep turning.

But if someone sees everything as some huge masterplan, they will interpret everything in that context.

What I see is people dying and becoming ill from a respiratory illness. Also, I see some people who have been in contact with those ill people also become ill. That is the very definition of infectious. It doesn't seem difficult to grasp.'"


Your argument here fails on so many levels because you are ascribing words and thoughts that I have not seen on here.

e.g.
“Some regulation is required” No argument there.

“Not everything is a conspiracy “ Who said it was https://angloamerica101.wordpress.com/2 ... an-beings/
https://ourgreaterdestiny.org/2020/10/a ... ars-cov-2/
https://drtomcowan.com/only-poisoned-mo ... FpbCI6ICJq

The power of the internet is huge and many are persuaded by such scandalous headline-grabbing stories. Not many will take the time to check the original source or the background of those promoting the lies. Interestingly, the wording seems to have been copy/pasted in many places.

The problem is this was picked up by pseudo-scientists with vested interest and then published on a number of 'blogs' with their own interpretation of what it said.
Can you tell me who Sally Fallon Morell is and what are her qualifications? I hope she's not just someone with dubious scientific claims about nutrition trying to sell her books.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A. ... lon_Morell
Oh and a doctor: Dr. Tom Cowan (the irony just hurts sometimes)
https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/fact ... -1.5506595

Anyway, check out this thread on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/com ... ney_cells/

So, is preventing the spread of this fake, and potentially dangerous, information censorship or are people being protected from such myths?
Quote: Miro "Due to the recent introduction of the likes of coco the fullback and Homme Vaste into this thread and their allegations against me (99% is not believed apparently plus the allegation by co co of “unsubstantiated pseudo-science) I would be very interested if they could pick the bones out of this. Way above my head obviously but I have given here a start for anyone interested, those two in particular.

Only poisoned monkey kidney cells 'grew' the SARS-CoV-2 'virus'

Good headline to start with don't you think?

and thisFrom CDC...centres of Disease Control and Prevention.
Therefore, we examined the capacity of SARS-CoV-2 to infect and replicate in several common primate and human cell lines, including human adenocarcinoma cells (A549), human liver cells (HUH 7.0), and human embryonic kidney cells (HEK-293T). In addition to Vero E6 and Vero CCL81 cells. ... Each cell line was inoculated at high multiplicity of infection and examined 24h post-infection. No CPE was observed in any of the cell lines except in Vero cells, which grew to greater than 10 to the 7th power at 24 h post-infection. In contrast, HUH 7.0 and 293T showed only modest viral replication, and A549 cells were incompatible with SARS CoV-2 infection.

Notes from a learned friend.
What does this language actually mean, and why is it the most shocking statement of all from the virology community? When virologists attempt to prove infection, they have three possible "hosts" or models on which they can test. The first is humans. Exposure to humans is generally not done for ethical reasons and has never been done with SARS-CoV-2 or any coronavirus. The second possible host is animals. Forgetting for a moment that they never actually use purified virus when exposing animals, they do use solutions that they claim contain the virus. Exposure to animals has been done once with SARS-CoV-2, in an experiment that used mice. The researchers found that none of the wild (normal) mice got sick. In a group of genetically modified mice, a statistically insignificant number lost some fur. They experienced nothing like the illness called Covid 19.


And again.....
The shocking thing about the above quote is that using their own methods, the virologists found that solutions containing SARS-CoV-2 — even in high amounts — were NOT, I repeat NOT, infective to any of the three human tissue cultures they tested. In plain English, this means they proved, on their terms, that this "new coronavirus" is not infectious to human beings. It is ONLY infective to monkey kidney cells, and only then when you add two potent drugs (gentamicin and amphotericin), known to be toxic to kidneys, to the mix.

Remember, don't shoot the messenger https://angloamerica101.wordpress.com/2 ... an-beings/
https://ourgreaterdestiny.org/2020/10/a ... ars-cov-2/
https://drtomcowan.com/only-poisoned-mo ... FpbCI6ICJq

The power of the internet is huge and many are persuaded by such scandalous headline-grabbing stories. Not many will take the time to check the original source or the background of those promoting the lies. Interestingly, the wording seems to have been copy/pasted in many places.

The problem is this was picked up by pseudo-scientists with vested interest and then published on a number of 'blogs' with their own interpretation of what it said.
Can you tell me who Sally Fallon Morell is and what are her qualifications? I hope she's not just someone with dubious scientific claims about nutrition trying to sell her books.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A. ... lon_Morell
Oh and a doctor: Dr. Tom Cowan (the irony just hurts sometimes)
https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/fact ... -1.5506595

Anyway, check out this thread on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/com ... ney_cells/

So, is preventing the spread of this fake, and potentially dangerous, information censorship or are people being protected from such myths?


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Quote: Miro "Thank you for your interest.
I don't believe I have argued that “covid” is not infectious. I may have questioned it very strongly and even argued that it is a version of flu but for me it's not the big issue anymore. The covid debate is a red herring for the smoke screen.
But I never let things go completely if you are referring to the CDC evidence that just shows I am simply keeping abreast of any developments.

I have said that I believe covid (and the argument has already been done as to just what covid is) is a smokescreen for a re set of the world economy as stated by the World Economic Forum, though they use the word “opportunity” again already explained.

Tipped off the UK Prime Minister? No, they are pulling his strings, just like every PM before him. Blair being a prime example.
As for Trump? I have no clue, I stay clear of anything to do with him. But I will ask this, is he a puppet of the deep state? or a thorn in their side. Is he there to play devils advocate? You choose. He is a proven liar so what can you say?
That takes care of a)

b) People are being misdiagnosed. Again look through the thread for details. Fact, not an opinion.

Again, As I clearly stated elsewhere that in my opinion (the re-set) it is doomed to fail. However, not before great damage is done to the world economy. There are opinions that point to communism rather than socialism being the eventual outcome. Hence the need to destroy the middle class, something that is progressing apace as we speak.

You say

Suggesting that "questioning very strongly" whether something is infectious is different to saying it isn't infectious is, ironically, a smokescreen, as it is very much saying, "infectious - I doubt that". The overwhelming evidence is that is that is infectious. If you don't accept that as a proven fact, your views on everything else can be viewed in that context.

Again, you get your wires wrong when you talk about a reset.

For the reset to work, it has to be by design, which means that it is a thought out plan, which means it requires a highly infectious disease for it to work, which means you are wrong to question strongly the whole basis of the reset.

If, however, the major capitalist nations are having to rethink their economies because of an unplanned, highly infectious pandemic, that is common sense. The countries are in economic turmoil with mounting debts. Of course they'll have a rethink of how they do things. They've no choice.

But generally, you're putting things the wrong way round.

The questions are:
1. Was it a pre-determined plan?
Or
2. Is is a worldwide response to unforeseen circumstances?

If the first, the disease has to be highly infectious for the plan to work, even though you strongly question it. And it has to work without anyone breaking ranks, for their own economic advantage, which is highly unlikely, particularly as the country on the economic front-foot appears to be China.

If the second, things are just what they are, with no hidden agenda. And we all know it's the second.

Although the authorities haven't counted on a bloke from Wakefield with an internet connection.....

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Quote: coco the fullback "Thanks for that. An excellent way to illustrate exactly what I'm getting at.

The journal you quote was published in June 2020 by CDC, the research appears to have been carried out on a very early US case of the virus (January 2020). They were investigating the nature of the SARS-CoV-2 including sequencing the whole genome. They were looking at which types of cell support amplification and replication of SARS-CoV-2 and which ones don't. They published their findings so that others could use the information in further studies.

A quote"These results are consistent with previous susceptibility findings for SARS-CoV and suggest other common culture systems, including MDCK, HeLa, HEP-2, MRC-5 cells, and embryonated eggs, are unlikely to support SARS-CoV-2 replication (20–22). In addition, SARS-CoV-2 did not replicate in bat EFK3B cells, which are susceptible to MERS-CoV. Together, the results indicate that SARS-CoV-2 maintains a similar profile to SARS-CoV in terms of susceptible cell lines."[/i

Unfortunately, this section seems not to have been picked up. Some fine quote mining and cherry-picking then took place and popped up in an assorted number places on the internet:


Do you remember, or did you not read my opening statement. I shall re produce it.

" I would be very interested if they could pick the bones out of this. Way above my head obviously but I have given here a start for anyone interested, those two in particular.

Is that not fair enough?
Did I say anywhere that it was truth? I offered it up so that our learned friends on here Poptart /wrencat/RWB/ etc. could maybe clarify it for me. I can't say fairer than that, can I?
But again, dig out some apparent "conspiracy theorists" I know nothing about, attach them to my post, or in answer to my post and BINGO you get 3 likes from three folk who cannot be icon_moon.gif to look for themselves.
They must be very relieved someone like yourself has come to their apparent rescue.

But I thank you for taking the trouble, such a change from the speed reading, hit and run snipers who usually challenge me. That's not to say I agree with your research, yet.

Now a question.
You say: "So, is preventing the spread of this fake, and potentially dangerous..............,"
In what way dangerous. We are not talking nazis with guns here.

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Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
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POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.64M 1,343 ↑19380,15514,103
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Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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