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Quote: Dunkirk Spirit "Very few of us on here are experts at anything, particularly medical science. The one thing that people have developed through the generations by the experience of their lives, and that of their forefathers, is “Common Sense.”if someone doesn’t seem right, then question it. We will all end up zombie like, if we just follow the experts without question. Just my opinion of course, I’m not an expert on Zombies.'"


My advice would be to give Daryl a call on the Walking Dead.
He is an expert on those things.

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Quote: Miro "Oh come on, they have a virtual monopoly see here

Mark Zuckerberg's social media site Facebook came out on top, according to a report from research company App Annie.
Facebook's other apps, Messenger, WhatsApp, and Instagram also made the top 5.
And then we have Youtube.

It's not about my free choice it's the unwitting general public that are being manipulated by American corporations that have an agenda, good or bad, doesn't matter. If they oporate in the UK then they should not be allowed to censor us. Even you can see that surely.

It's not all bad. In fact as we speak there are still many excellent posts on youtube. But that does not excuse the pulling of many other excellent postings, Dr Vernan Coleman for example. But just what the future holds I don't know. As it stands I was simply relating what Google and Facebook are telling us are their policies as the vaccine gets rolled out.. A very dangerous policy I believe.

No PopTart, I don't suppose I can just post just anything on here. But tell me, if I was a fully qualified doctor and warned about the dangers of a particular medical treatment would you, as moderator, censor me? And if so, on what grounds? Because wrencat, totaly unqualified, disagreed with me? Or even if another doctor came on and disagreed with me. Or would you allow a debate and leave it up to others to choose who they believed?

Now that would be the grown up solution, would you agree?

To repeat something you didn't answer from previous post,

You keep banging on about "fake news" yet do not seem to understand that ommision is on a parallel with fakery.
You seem ok with that. Hypocritical ?'"


But I don't know what your qualifications are and if you were advising people on medical procedures on here then yes I would moderate you. Politely.

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Quote: Dunkirk Spirit "Very few of us on here are experts at anything, particularly medical science. The one thing that people have developed through the generations by the experience of their lives, and that of their forefathers, is “Common Sense.”if someone doesn’t seem right, then question it. We will all end up zombie like, if we just follow the experts without question. Just my opinion of course, I’m not an expert on Zombies.'"


Absolutely. I aren't even an expert in making my own breakfast ( burnt toast again) Anyone can hold any belief they wish. The thought police have not arrived yet. The level of proof required is totally up to the individual including zero evidence.

Being sceptical and asking questions is always a good position.

However, if you wish for someone else to believe what you do, then you need to match their level of evidence and proof.

Some people believe in ghosts, which is fine, fill your boots. I don't believe in ghosts because I have never seen any evidence that has convinced me of their existence. If someone wants me to believe in ghosts they're going to have to provide my level of proof.

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Quote: coco the fullback "I would look at what evidence he has for that treatment being dangerous. What experiments and data he had produced/published and been peer reviewed and what the view of those peers was. I would not accept the simple word or views of an individual on something so important regardless of his/her qualifications.

I cannot publish any views I like in the Daily Mail, why should I be able to publish them on social media? If I have views which have no basis and are contrary to all evidence, I would have to find another way of reaching the public, say self-publishing a series of books like your favourite unlicensed doctor.

He is not censored at all, only not allowed to publish unsubstantiated views on certain privately owned media.

Similarly, David Ike is also not censored.

To be clear, the person making a claim has the burden of proof.

It is impossible to prove the non-existence of something, you can only show that there is no evidence to support it.

That's how science works.

Anyway, I've read a lot of what you've posted on here, but it seems mainly a Gish gallop of unrelated and unsubstantiated pseudo-science.

If you want an actual debate (as you've claimed)..

What is your main (single) point and what is the evidence for that?
e.g. that a global reset was a premeditated power grab tactic by '?????'.

One argument at a time.'"


Do I believe you would take the trouble to “look at what evidence he has for that treatment being dangerous. What experiments and data he had produced/published and been peer reviewed and what the view of those peers ?“ No I do not. Easy to say, very hard to do. Even if you had the time.

So, lets get this right, no unsubstantiated views are to be allowed on certain privately owned media.
I have to take you to task there. There are millions of unsubstantiated views on privately owned media. I even gave two examples.

The Daily Mail and social media are two wholly different mediums. They are not comparable.

Please define “unsubstantiated” when referring to a viewpoint as opposed to scientific facts (if indeed there is such a thing, the sands of science keeps shifting all the time)
I trust you have no knowledge of just what has been taken down from Dr Coleman's youtube.account.to pass any judgement.

If someone's upload is taken down, is that not censorship?
Censorship..meaning to, to examine in order to suppress'

Please elaborate “unsubstantiated pseudo-science” More than one example please or you allegation is unfounded and meaningless. Please back up your claim so that I may defend them.

And finally, you ask:

What is your main (single) point and what is the evidence for that?
e.g. that a global reset was a premeditated power grab tactic by '?????'.

My answer to that is, if you don't know by now after 46 pages then no amount of explanation here will possibly get through to you.
I'll Pass rather than waste my time repeating myself.

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Quote: PopTart "But I don't know what your qualifications are and if you were advising people on medical procedures on here then yes I would moderate you. Politely.'"


Oh dear, another analogy gone completely over your head again..

Anyhoo, Still evading questions eh?
Want me to list them in simple order?

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Quote: BarnsleyGull "My advice would be to give Daryl a call on the Walking Dead.
He is an expert on those things.'"

I know DS and he’s borderline with the zombie thing icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: Big lads mate "I know DS and he’s borderline with the zombie thing Takes one to know one icon_lol.gif

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Due to the recent introduction of the likes of coco the fullback and Homme Vaste into this thread and their allegations against me (99% is not believed apparently plus the allegation by co co of “unsubstantiated pseudo-science) I would be very interested if they could pick the bones out of this. Way above my head obviously but I have given here a start for anyone interested, those two in particular.

Only poisoned monkey kidney cells 'grew' the SARS-CoV-2 'virus'

Good headline to start with don't you think?

and thisFrom CDC...s of Disease Control and Prevention.
Therefore, we examined the capacity of SARS-CoV-2 to infect and replicate in several common primate and human cell lines, including human adenocarcinoma cells (A549), human liver cells (HUH 7.0), and human embryonic kidney cells (HEK-293T). In addition to Vero E6 and Vero CCL81 cells. ... Each cell line was inoculated at high multiplicity of infection and examined 24h post-infection. No CPE was observed in any of the cell lines except in Vero cells, which grew to greater than 10 to the 7th power at 24 h post-infection. In contrast, HUH 7.0 and 293T showed only modest viral replication, and A549 cells were incompatible with SARS CoV-2 infection.

Notes from a learned friend.
What does this language actually mean, and why is it the most shocking statement of all from the virology community? When virologists attempt to prove infection, they have three possible "hosts" or models on which they can test. The first is humans. Exposure to humans is generally not done for ethical reasons and has never been done with SARS-CoV-2 or any coronavirus. The second possible host is animals. Forgetting for a moment that they never actually use purified virus when exposing animals, they do use solutions that they claim contain the virus. Exposure to animals has been done once with SARS-CoV-2, in an experiment that used mice. The researchers found that none of the wild (normal) mice got sick. In a group of genetically modified mice, a statistically insignificant number lost some fur. They experienced nothing like the illness called Covid 19.


And again.....
The shocking thing about the above quote is that using their own methods, the virologists found that solutions containing SARS-CoV-2 — even in high amounts — were NOT, I repeat NOT, infective to any of the three human tissue cultures they tested. In plain English, this means they proved, on their terms, that this "new coronavirus" is not infectious to human beings. It is ONLY infective to monkey kidney cells, and only then when you add two potent drugs (gentamicin and amphotericin), known to be toxic to kidneys, to the mix.

Remember, don't shoot the messenger a026.gif

Full research here.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0516_article
Due to the recent introduction of the likes of coco the fullback and Homme Vaste into this thread and their allegations against me (99% is not believed apparently plus the allegation by co co of “unsubstantiated pseudo-science) I would be very interested if they could pick the bones out of this. Way above my head obviously but I have given here a start for anyone interested, those two in particular.

Only poisoned monkey kidney cells 'grew' the SARS-CoV-2 'virus'

Good headline to start with don't you think?

and thisFrom CDC...s of Disease Control and Prevention.
Therefore, we examined the capacity of SARS-CoV-2 to infect and replicate in several common primate and human cell lines, including human adenocarcinoma cells (A549), human liver cells (HUH 7.0), and human embryonic kidney cells (HEK-293T). In addition to Vero E6 and Vero CCL81 cells. ... Each cell line was inoculated at high multiplicity of infection and examined 24h post-infection. No CPE was observed in any of the cell lines except in Vero cells, which grew to greater than 10 to the 7th power at 24 h post-infection. In contrast, HUH 7.0 and 293T showed only modest viral replication, and A549 cells were incompatible with SARS CoV-2 infection.

Notes from a learned friend.
What does this language actually mean, and why is it the most shocking statement of all from the virology community? When virologists attempt to prove infection, they have three possible "hosts" or models on which they can test. The first is humans. Exposure to humans is generally not done for ethical reasons and has never been done with SARS-CoV-2 or any coronavirus. The second possible host is animals. Forgetting for a moment that they never actually use purified virus when exposing animals, they do use solutions that they claim contain the virus. Exposure to animals has been done once with SARS-CoV-2, in an experiment that used mice. The researchers found that none of the wild (normal) mice got sick. In a group of genetically modified mice, a statistically insignificant number lost some fur. They experienced nothing like the illness called Covid 19.


And again.....
The shocking thing about the above quote is that using their own methods, the virologists found that solutions containing SARS-CoV-2 — even in high amounts — were NOT, I repeat NOT, infective to any of the three human tissue cultures they tested. In plain English, this means they proved, on their terms, that this "new coronavirus" is not infectious to human beings. It is ONLY infective to monkey kidney cells, and only then when you add two potent drugs (gentamicin and amphotericin), known to be toxic to kidneys, to the mix.

Remember, don't shoot the messenger a026.gif

Full research here.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0516_article


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Quote: Miro "Due to the recent introduction of the likes of coco the fullback and Homme Vaste into this thread and their allegations against me (99% is not believed apparently plus the allegation by co co of “unsubstantiated pseudo-science) I would be very interested if they could pick the bones out of this. Way above my head obviously but I have given here a start for anyone interested, those two in particular.

Only poisoned monkey kidney cells 'grew' the SARS-CoV-2 'virus'

Good headline to start with don't you think?

and thisFrom CDC...centres of Disease Control and Prevention.
Therefore, we examined the capacity of SARS-CoV-2 to infect and replicate in several common primate and human cell lines, including human adenocarcinoma cells (A549), human liver cells (HUH 7.0), and human embryonic kidney cells (HEK-293T). In addition to Vero E6 and Vero CCL81 cells. ... Each cell line was inoculated at high multiplicity of infection and examined 24h post-infection. No CPE was observed in any of the cell lines except in Vero cells, which grew to greater than 10 to the 7th power at 24 h post-infection. In contrast, HUH 7.0 and 293T showed only modest viral replication, and A549 cells were incompatible with SARS CoV-2 infection.

Notes from a learned friend.
What does this language actually mean, and why is it the most shocking statement of all from the virology community? When virologists attempt to prove infection, they have three possible "hosts" or models on which they can test. The first is humans. Exposure to humans is generally not done for ethical reasons and has never been done with SARS-CoV-2 or any coronavirus. The second possible host is animals. Forgetting for a moment that they never actually use purified virus when exposing animals, they do use solutions that they claim contain the virus. Exposure to animals has been done once with SARS-CoV-2, in an experiment that used mice. The researchers found that none of the wild (normal) mice got sick. In a group of genetically modified mice, a statistically insignificant number lost some fur. They experienced nothing like the illness called Covid 19.


And again.....
The shocking thing about the above quote is that using their own methods, the virologists found that solutions containing SARS-CoV-2 — even in high amounts — were NOT, I repeat NOT, infective to any of the three human tissue cultures they tested. In plain English, this means they proved, on their terms, that this "new coronavirus" is not infectious to human beings. It is ONLY infective to monkey kidney cells, and only then when you add two potent drugs (gentamicin and amphotericin), known to be toxic to kidneys, to the mix.

Full research here.

I'm not sure what you think that proves?
It certainly doesn't prove the Coronavirus isn't infectious.

What's your point?

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Quote: PopTart "I'm not sure what you think that proves?
It certainly doesn't prove the Coronavirus isn't infectious.

What's your point?'"


Oh Pop Tart, it took you 5 whole minutes, probably more like 4, to read all that, take it in and post a reply. let alone actually take the trouble to visit the link.

Even a learned person would have taken longer than four minutes to absorb the information therein.

And you want me to take you seriously.

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Quote: PopTart "I'm not sure what you think that proves?
It certainly doesn't prove the Coronavirus isn't infectious.

What's your point?'"


It certainly is infectious.
One of my lads pals, early 20's, although not critical by any means, is pretty ill with a positive covid diagnosis.
It really hacks me off to have the folk denying it's existence, looking for bizarre reasons to blame everything from the Chinese to 5G, just so that they can justify not covering their face or washing their hands.

We can argue all day about the government response and there is no absolute right way to control the spread, apart form a coordinated FULL lockdown for a couple of weeks (no movement, shopping, flights, holidays, schools), which would cause it to disappear but, alas, this is never, ever going to be possible but, to deny something that has killed so many people is just bloody sick and despite the endless "have you seen this" or, "what do you think of that" ought to be left to the sci fi fraternity.

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Interesting read regarding our perception of media information


Sure, there is a lot of fake news out there, but when you go as far as silencing doctors and scientists from sharing their findings, that seems quite authoritarian/totalitarian.

Corruption runs rampant in this world, and information suggesting that powerful people have their hand in creating/influencing a problem for the purposes of proposing a solution has even more people asking questions.

It would be wise to listen to people like Edward Snowden and ask ourselves if governments and powerful people are simply using the coronavirus to introduce even more authoritarian measures upon the population..

For example, more surveillance, the continual move towards a completely digital world, where nearly all aspects of our lives are digitized for tracking purposes, is happening. Contact tracing apps and new software being downloaded automatically to phones already suggests this with QR codes[/i.'



More worryingly for me were the comments made by Billy boy in an interview with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce back in june.

[i'In the interview, Bill stated, with a smile, that humanity should prepare for the next pandemic “that will get attention this time.” Some media outlets are reporting that he was referring to the upcoming potential second wave, but if you watch the full interview that doesn’t seem to be the case[/i.'

I seem to recall Gates referring to this crisis as "Pandemic One" in another interview? Does this guy know something we don't?

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Having read with intrigue for a couple of days how this thread pans out, I believe it would be a sobering experience for anyone claiming this virus doesn’t exist to spend a few days on their local ICU and witness what this virus actually does. Posters can put all the quantitative data/ meta analysis they like on here, I couldn’t really care if it’s published within the Lancet/elsevier as you can always find research to back any argument. The fact of the matter is that many people have lost loved ones to this virus and this should never be forgotten or overlooked. I know a high percentage of these people already had pre existing Co-morbidities, this again is no comfort to loved ones who this has effected due to the terrible nature in which it kills.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "It certainly is infectious.
.'"


We've got a useful case study on COVID19; the Diamond Princess cruise ship which goes some way to help explain the infectiousness of it.

+ Passengers boarded Diamond Princess on January 20
+ 3,711 passengers and crew members on board
+ Passengers included a large number of elderly people, who were most likely to develop symptoms to spread any infection
+ All crew and passengers would've likely shared the same space within 2 metre of each other for more than a fortnight
+ From 5 February, passengers on the ship were confined to their cabins for two weeks or more.
+ As of 1 March, all on board including the crew and the captain had disembarked
+ Result: 712 positive PCR tests

Even with the above issues, reports of a failed quarantine and poor hygiene on board it still only amounted to a 19% infection rate.

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Quote: Pat Bateman "Having read with intrigue for a couple of days how this thread pans out, I believe it would be a sobering experience for anyone claiming this virus doesn’t exist to spend a few days on their local ICU and witness what this virus actually does. Posters can put all the quantitative data/ meta analysis they like on here, I couldn’t really care if it’s published within the Lancet/elsevier as you can always find research to back any argument. The fact of the matter is that many people have lost loved ones to this virus and this should never be forgotten or overlooked. I know a high percentage of these people already had pre existing Co-morbidities, this again is no comfort to loved ones who this has effected due to the terrible nature in which it kills.'"


From what I've read on this thread I don't believe anyone is categorically denying the existence of this virus. I think people like myself are concerned with number of failed protective measures implemented by the "experts" that we are suspect are being used as an exploitative power grab to usher in a new order either consciously or sub consciously. I myself am not a denier I would describe my stance as a sceptic.

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 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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