| FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > Bulls to stay in SL |
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| Quote: bigchris "More bitterness again, I refer to 'we' as a loyal set of fans, backroom staff that haven't been paid in months and a set of loyal players who have stuck to the task despite their future being unknown.
If we had gone bust between seasons then we may also have had to sell players, as it happens this situation has occurred mid season and we have therefore been allowed some breathing space for the good of the game.
I haven't seen much sympathy from Wakey fans and a large percentage of the idiots we have had on our board are supporters of your club. The part I find amusing is that since you are in with a chance of making the playoffs suddenly your fans have become more vocal about their feelings, lets face it most Wakey fans couldn't care less about the Bulls situation until it directly affected them.'"
THE BULLS AND THE RFL, TOGETHER YOU ARE STRONGER |
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| Quote: vastman "You have got there at the expense of every club, fan, local business and the RFL, you just don't seem to get it you ridiculous man. Would you like a ![]()
The club has been given the maximum punishment for going into administration, our finances are clearly a complete mess but the same team that started the season have managed to get us into the play off places, the team is there on merit.
The RFL and other SL clubs voted to allow us to see out the season, it seems that we are perceived as worth
keeping. I am more than entitled to put forward my opinion, as your fans are on our board.
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| Quote: REDWHITEANDBLUE "Chomp
What is the % of idiots then on your board compared to other clubs that support Wakefield who are against the Bulls being in SL? Or is it just a sweeping statement?
You are referring about comments on message boards that are an absolute minority of total support of any of the clubs.
To put some reality into the situation and perhaps to balance your current opinion of our club, we have been where you are and worn the tee-shirt, our administrator didnt sack the back romm staff or the key people needed to run the club behind the scenes, no he sold some f our best players so we could run as a club in Admin will all facets n place, at the cost of a full season on the pitch last year and with the absolute prospect of not having a SL license re-newed. In your case the administrator who was appointed by the club has sacked everyone except the players, the humilty shown by the staff and the coaches etc to work for 'free' is extremely admirable and should be applauded. However the fact that your players wages have been paid by the RFL from advance funds and yes I know that its Sky money etc and some due to the club, the fact is that the amount of income coming into the club is virtually nil your supporter base is based upon the 10K cheap season tickets you sold, the additionality is in the main from away supporters.
Back to the staff clubs agreed not to plunder your players, however the brasen task of sacking everything but the playing staff and even having to source free line paint from Leeds is a bit rich and perception from the outside and other clubs is pretty low on the whole affair, its beeen on going for months. Just to cap it off you obtained a B grade license last year and its aparent that you had already recieved substantial funds from the RFL along with this seasons lease investment by them. We were refused a temporary loan of nothing like what the ulls got and also when we had a reported bug money backer the RFL wouldnt give a condition of SL
Funnily enough I have not worked out the exact percentage, it just appears that a lot of the fans having a go at our club and hoping we fail are Wakey fans.
Our administrator has approached our administration in a completely different way to yours, some of his decisions have been very strange but if bold decisions like sacking staff (until a buyer is found and knowing a fund would probably be set up) rather than the players has meant we could retain our players, then maybe it was the right decision. Would we have got this support between seasons? Not so sure, very much doubt it.
The fact we were awarded a license when our finances were in a mess is strange I agree, but I'm sure we are not the only club in the same situation.
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| Quote: bigchris "The club has been given the maximum punishment for going into administration, our finances are clearly a complete mess but the same team that started the season have managed to get us into the play off places, the team is there on merit.
The RFL and other SL clubs voted to allow us to see out the season, it seems that we are perceived as worth
keeping. I am more than entitled to put forward my opinion, as your fans are on our board.'"
You totally miss the point. If nature had taken its course. ie without the unprecidented intervention of the RFL, your club would have already ceased to exist in SL
The other issues surround franchising, where your club was awarded a license ahead of other applicants and a probable future reduction of numbers in SL, when it is extremely likely
that your club will stay in the top flight when others will be less fortunate.
Also, do you really think that the same level of support and backing would have been given to clubs like ourselves or Cas if they found themselves in your position and please think carefully and answer this question truthfully.
FWIW, most fans have sympathy for your plight, especially for the loyal fans and we would not wish this situation on any other club, but there sould be a level playing field within any sport and unfortunately in RL this clearly does not exist |
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| Quote: wrencat1873 "You totally miss the point. If nature had taken its course. ie without the unprecidented intervention of the RFL, your club would have already ceased to exist in SL
The other issues surround franchising, where your club was awarded a license ahead of other applicants and a probable future reduction of numbers in SL, when it is extremely likely
that your club will stay in the top flight when others will be less fortunate.
Also, do you really think that the same level of support and backing would have been given to clubs like ourselves or Cas if they found themselves in your position and please think carefully and answer this question truthfully.
FWIW, most fans have sympathy for your plight, especially for the loyal fans and we would not wish this situation on any other club, but there sould be a level playing field within any sport and unfortunately in RL this clearly does not exist'"
I would hope you would receive the same support if you went in to administration mid season, I didn't think we would receive any support and I was wrong on that so who knows how much help, if any you would receive.
When this situation first raised it's ugly head a number of Wakey fans said go bust, have a clear out of players and start a fresh. Maybe that suited your club when your situation arose, but we have a structure of a very good rugby league side and it appears the priority has been to keep hold of our young talent.
I agree there should be a level playing field, but this will never happen when the top league is structured around franchises. |
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| Quote: bigchris "I would hope you would receive the same support if you went in to administration mid season, I didn't think we would receive any support and I was wrong on that so who knows how much help, if any you would receive.
When this situation first raised it's ugly head a number of Wakey fans said go bust, have a clear out of players and start a fresh. Maybe that suited your club when your situation arose, but we have a structure of a very good rugby league side and it appears the priority has been to keep hold of our young talent. ![]()
You're in administration man, you have gone bust for heavens sake - exactly like we did. It's the Administrator keeping your players rather than selling them to pay the creditors - why is open to conjecture.
Have you no understanding of the situation at all? 
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| Quote: bigchris "I would hope you would receive the same support if you went in to administration mid season, I didn't think we would receive any support and I was wrong on that so who knows how much help, if any you would receive.
When this situation first raised it's ugly head a number of Wakey fans said go bust, have a clear out of players and start a fresh. Maybe that suited your club when your situation arose, but we have a structure of a very good rugby league side and it appears the priority has been to keep hold of our young talent.
I agree there should be a level playing field, but this will never happen when the top league is structured around franchises.'"
One that you cannot afford and someone else is paying for  |
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I'm not sure anyone has anything but sympathy for the actual fans, who are blameless in all this.
The comparisons to Wakefield's situation are unhelpful, and I don't have a problem with the way we were treated by the RFL at the time. I think they went as far as they could or should have to assist.
My only concern is in the style and level of involvement of the RFL/SLE in this case.
From 'secret' loans, to grade 'B' licence, to lease buys, to financial support of the players, but not the backroom or coaching staff.
Prior to going into admin, the club seemed to be run as if nothing was wrong. Where were the cost-cutting measures to try and make the business viable? Other clubs, e.g. Cas, have had to sell players and assets to keep the business afloat.
If any of the creditors (particularly HMRC) don't get paid in full, the RFL could be seen as complicit in avoiding these debts.
Added to that the number of dangerous precedents that have been set for other clubs, this could get extremely embarrassing for the sport.
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| Quote: vastman "You're in administration man, you have gone bust for heavens sake - exactly like we did. It's the Administrator keeping your players rather than selling them to pay the creditors - why is open to conjecture.
Have you no understanding of the situation at all? ![]()
What are you waffling on about?
Of course we have gone bust and of course the administrator makes the decisions. It is his job to get as much back for the club to pay debtors and his fees. He therefore made the decision to sack staff rather than players and try and keep the club playing week to week so that the club could be sold as an on going concern and maximise returns, rather than the club just going out of existence and everyone getting nothing.
One of the major conditions of bids coming in was that the young talent was kept at the club, hence me saying that keeping the players was a priority.
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| Quote: PHe "One that you cannot afford and someone else is paying for ![]()
That ones already been done.
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| Quote: bigchris "What are you waffling on about?
Of course we have gone bust and of course the administrator makes the decisions. It is his job to get as much back for the club to pay debtors and his fees. He therefore made the decision to sack staff rather than players and try and keep the club playing week to week so that the club could be sold as an on going concern and maximise returns, rather than the club just going out of existence and everyone getting nothing.
One of the major conditions of bids coming in was that the young talent was kept at the club, hence me saying that keeping the players was a priority.'"
No it's you who's waffling and frankly making it up as you go along - you said "When this situation first raised it's ugly head a number of Wakey fans said go bust, have a clear out of players and start a fresh. Maybe that suited your club when your situation arose, but we have a structure of a very good rugby league side and it appears the priority has been to keep hold of our young talent" are you bust or not?
At what point does a club or any business in administration/bust have the option to decide what the priorities are - ie keeping young players - jeez how arrogant can a set of fans get. Give your head a shake, the only priority for a business in Administration is paying creditors - unless someone is making it very very agreeable for the administrator to keep said youngsters.
Something is very wrong with this whole situation and most right minded people know it. |
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| Quote: coco the fullback "I'm not sure anyone has anything but sympathy for the actual fans, who are blameless in all this.
The comparisons to Wakefield's situation are unhelpful, and I don't have a problem with the way we were treated by the RFL at the time. I think they went as far as they could or should have to assist.
My only concern is in the style and level of involvement of the RFL/SLE in this case.
From 'secret' loans, to grade 'B' licence, to lease buys, to financial support of the players, but not the backroom or coaching staff.
Prior to going into admin, the club seemed to be run as if nothing was wrong. Where were the cost-cutting measures to try and make the business viable? Other clubs, e.g. Cas, have had to sell players and assets to keep the business afloat.
If any of the creditors (particularly HMRC) don't get paid in full, the RFL could be seen as complicit in avoiding these debts.
Added to that the number of dangerous precedents that have been set for other clubs, this could get extremely embarrassing for the sport.'"
That's it, can you imagine the uproar from fans if the RFL did kick a team out of SL for whatever reason in the future, the stink would be unbelievable.
Like you've said, dangerous precedents have been set and they've backed themselves into a corner with this one big time. |
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| Quote: vastman "No it's you who's waffling and frankly making it up as you go along - you said "When this situation first raised it's ugly head a number of Wakey fans said go bust, have a clear out of players and start a fresh. Maybe that suited your club when your situation arose, but we have a structure of a very good rugby league side and it appears the priority has been to keep hold of our young talent" are you bust or not?
At what point does a club or any business in administration/bust have the option to decide what the priorities are - ie keeping young players - jeez how arrogant can a set of fans get. Give your head a shake, the only priority for a business in Administration is paying creditors - unless someone is making it very very agreeable for the administrator to keep said youngsters.
Something is very wrong with this whole situation and most right minded people know it.'"
Can you not read? I have just said that obviously we are in admin and it is the administrators decision.
I said it appears that the administrator is trying to maximise return for the club and as so retaining the players as a priority to sell the club as an on going concern. As I have also said I believe one of the conditions of offers put forward is that no players are sold. Why do you think he has kept the players?
Where have I said the club/business are deciding to keep hold of the players? |
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| Quote: bigchris "Can you not read? I have just said that obviously we are in admin and it is the administrators decision.
I said it appears that the administrator is trying to maximise return for the club and as so retaining the players as a priority to sell the club as an on going concern. As I have also said I believe one of the conditions of offers put forward is that no players are sold. Why do you think he has kept the players?
Where have I said the club/business are deciding to keep hold of the players?'"
At the end of the day this alll stinks of Bull  , I'm waiting for the next club to go bust, and they better get the help the Bulls are getting... RFL/SL are fools for taking this root, it will open a can of worms in the future for sure..  |
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| Quote: bigchris "The whole of your post was utter garbage but the first bit highlighted is just laughable. ![]()
Laughable? You weren't a big club in the 60s,70s,80 and aren't a big club now. You had a few good successful Bullmania years when Caisley thought he owned the league and your away support was good, you had the best team in the league so your support should have been good as would anyother team with that success. You started thinking you were bigger than you are offering big contracts buying ru clubs and in the end couldn't sustain it and you are where you are now, a mess. I've no bad feeling towards Bradford it just winds me up all this "sl can't lose Bradford" nonsence. If Bradford went down how would it effect Wakefield? if replaced by Halifax or Fev it wouldn't effect our attendance,fev would attract a bigger crowd to be honest.
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