This.

Plus the fact that the sig material that started this whole debate weren't actually her original thoughts - she was (rather clumsily) paraphrasing the work of the Austrian philosopher and economist Friedrich Hayek, whom she later ensured was elevated to the Order of the Companions of Honour.

Evil [iand[/i unoriginal.

Plenty of class on show on this thread......

So you can only "do a days work" if you come home physically exhausted and covered in coal dust?

I think that's a simplification of the point that was being made; it's true to say that in many traditional manufacturing and mining areas, many of the jobs that were lost have eventually been replaced, but by lower paid, less skilled jobs such as warehousing, distribution and call centres. The people doing those jobs earn less, spend less, pay lower taxes and are more reliant on top-up benefits such as HB and tax credits - representing a net loss to the national and local economy and as the OP alluded to, a significant negative impact on wellbeing and happiness - a much ignored economic metric.

That overlooks such things as the national minimum wage, health and safety etc, all making the overall cost of british manufacturing more expensive that many other countries around the world.
What is also overlooked is that the world in the last twenty-thirty years, has become an awful lot smaller, and what were regional industries, were replaced with worldwide markets and corporations.
Industries of the 20th century have been replaced with industries of the 21st, peoples reliance on all things automated and computerised is a world away from dirty men crawling on all fours with pick axes, toiling in the ground.
I know what job i'd rather have my son doing when it comes around to his stint in the workplace.

However much you may (or may not) be correct about the benefits to the economy or not of those in subsidised employment - I don't think that's the point he was making at all. He was implying that working in an office isn't "real" work and those people employed in that environment had a lower quality of life because of their working environment rather than their "lower" wages being the cause.

Out of interest, what was the "average" wage for a miner?

I can't argue what the OP's specific meaning was because I don't know, but that's what I took from his post.

I also don't know what the average wage was, but a quick Google search suggests that following the industrial action of the mid 70's, miners were earning a higher average wage than their working class peers in other industries.

Quote: bren2k "I can't argue what the OP's specific meaning was because I don't know, but that's what I took from his post. I also don't know what the average wage was, but a quick Google search suggests that following the industrial action of the mid 70's, miners were earning a higher average wage than their working class peers in other industries.'" sorry but that is utter bollox the majority had below the average wage, some did earned above due to bonuses but the was the face and development workers. and guess what and some even died in producing fuel so we could all have basic electric in their house for light and heating Arther did say before bonuses was introduced it would put man against man and still has the same bickering effect today, can some one on here justify why footballers can be paid so much and why a high profile banker can warrant a £963,000 bonus it is just disgusting www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16752358

Quote: bren2k "I can't argue what the OP's specific meaning was because I don't know, but that's what I took from his post. I also don't know what the average wage was, but a quick Google search suggests that following the industrial action of the mid 70's, miners were earning a higher average wage than their working class peers in other industries.'" sorry but that is utter bollox the majority had below the average wage, some did earned above due to bonuses but the was the face and development workers. and guess what and some even died in producing fuel so we could all have basic electric in their house for light and heating Arther did say before bonuses was introduced it would put man against man and still has the same bickering effect today, can some one on here justify why footballers can be paid so much and why a high profile banker can warrant a £963,000 bonus it is just disgusting www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16752358

bitter words they may be but when you are reduced to cooking food like baked beans on a wood fire in the hearth by candle light in winter it does make the mind work. been there and would hate to be in the same situation

over the years I have mellowed but I can truly say that her name makes all come flowing back

What of Thatchers main and long lasting legacy?

Her policies created record unemployment figures and her decision to close 150 of the 170 or so state owned collieries compounded the problem. It is estimated that at least 50% of the mines were profitable and needn't have closed. We currently feel the pinch of a worldwide energy crisis yet beneath our feet lays 300 years worth of coal. The cost of reopening new mines and retraining miners would run into billions and would dwarf the time adjusted figure that was saved by closing unprofitable mines.

Thatcher also sanctioned the use of profits from North Sea Gas to cover the cost of closing those pits, replacing coal with gas and to underwrite the cost of the record high in unemployment.

Compare her use of the nations gas revenue with that of Norway who spent their money creating employment, strengthening manufacture and building a modern national infrastructure which even today, in a world wide recession, has helped protect the Krona from the financial crisis in Europe.

Take today's news about RBS boss Stephen Hester awarding himself a near £1Million pound annual bonus on top of his £1.2Million pound salary despite his bank being 82% state owned and him being responsible for sacking over 21,000 RBS workers.

THAT is Thatchers legacy!

As many have said, palatable or not, depending upon your opinion of her Headstone, Dance floor or Urinal take your pick, that's how many feel.

You missed off Global Warming and the Japanese Tsunami - they must be her fault too based on that posting!

As I said, I got the information from a quick Google search - I don't know if it's right or, as you say, bollox.

Either way, I certainly wasn't attacking the position or criticising miners - I'm not sure why you've felt the need to do that to me?

This is such an emotive subject that both sides will see things in a particular light. Whether you agree with it or not there will be as many people who will argue the benefits of Thatchers policies as see things as you and many others on here do. That is a direct result of this region being on the recieving end.

As to whether the country as a whole benefitted - that's a whole other story and I am not going to get drawn into that any further - so that's me done on here! Good luck!

not having pop at you it a fact that there are some positions in life where work doesn't get the respect it deserves

firemen and other rescue services hold more respect to me than some jumped up yuppie banker that can make money sat at a desk

You're right it is emotive, very emotive but my post is factual.