if true that would of been a desperate act for survival of the club

again snowie!

It's something that happens all the time in the big bad real world - the business 'shuffles' money around, delays payments, wheels and deals, especially when cash is tight in order to remain solvent.

Is it bollox.

It is theft, IMO. Using money that never was your own to fund your business.

And yes, I have been there, done that. You try being FD of a plc that has run out of money because other directors have lied to you, when your own personal assets are on the line. But, even then, we paid the PAYE and VAT when due. Other than the Employers' NIC, it never was our money, see?

Good man. Well said. IMO.

You're right, it does happen, and probably more often than people imagine. It shouldn't, of course, but it does.

It would also appear that you have defaulted on your tax repayment plan. Hence why HMRC have torn up the contract and have you running round Belle Vue bare ass with them close behind with a towel whipping you

RE the non-payment of VAT & NI/PAYE. This is quite a rare occurance for me as an accountant. But dont forget, WTWCs will have defaulted on the Employer's NI too, something that comes out of their own pocket.

I think the point being made was, not that it wasn't unusual to not pay VAT, NI etc but that it wasn't unusual that these were diverted for other things until the last minute and then taken from somewhere else.
As an accountant i am surprised you haven't heard of cashflow.
As for defaulting on the repayment plan, nobody really knows on here wether or not we did it as an act of being skint or wether with impending administration we decided not to waste our money.

"...a person commits an offence if he or she knowingly applies or permits the application of the amount of a deduction or withholding of tax made or deemed made under a tax law for any purpose other than in payment to HMRC"

You can go to jail for this offence.

Adey - it happens all the time, very often with the express agreement of HMRC.

It's a fact of life (especially in the sort of economy we find ourselves in now) and is far from "theft".

I have little doubt that EVERY SL will have deferred crown debt to some extent at some point in recent years.

Any business that fails will owe PAYE/NIC/VAT to some extent simply due to the way in which the taxes are collected and paid, to call it theft is a bit much.

presumably though the jails aren't full of businessmen (or women, don't want to fall in that little trap!!!) who's business have gone bust and then been unable to pay tax as a result of it?
Not that i am suggesting for a minute he shouldn't, i'd have him cracking rocks by lunchtime!!!!!!

Of course it isn't theft, particularly not if you have agreed a payment plan with the person you have "robbed" on how to pay them their dues.

HMRC have been surprisingly accommodating with many smaller businesses in the current recession - provided of course they approach HMRC and agree a plan and stick to it! Just not paying and waiting for HMRC to act is rarely a wise move, and is usually a sign of an insolvent business, is it not? And you know as well as me what the law says about trading whilst insolvent? I'm not talking about being just a month or so behind either.

Its a subject I feel strongly about, to be honest, as you can tell. If using money that was never yours to pay other liabilities, with no certainty as to whether you can ever make that shortfall good, is not tantamount to theft, I really don't know what is. But I also said, on an earlier thread, that I have never been in the position where the only choices were to use monies due to HMRC for other purposes, or to initiate the insolvency process. The nearest I came was many years ago, when we were able to avoid asking the bank to appoint a receiver only because of an ongoing (and ultimately successful) rescue takeover, and the forbearance of our suppliers as a result. I pray I will never find myself in the position of having to make the choice, since by then the business would have been allowed to become insolvent anyway and the only choice I could make would be formal insolvency.