I'd say 3000-3500 Cas fans, would not like to say how many paid and how many got over the wall though

double post.

5469 in 2005 and 5108 in 2007 for Cas. Incidentally, 2007 was the only time you've got a bigger average than us in all Super League years since 2000.

What cannot be denied, however, is the steady incline you've had in support in those ten/eleven years so someone must have been doing something right?

If the figures from RLstats are correct you've gone from 4550/3669 in 2000/2001 to 6k.

Fully, when I said cup games, I didn't just mean the challenge cup... I took out the northern rail cup games as well and just counted the home league games

As to the game at Belle Vue, I seem to remember the advice was to buy tickets as they were going to sell out, but it wasn't an all ticket game, I'm fairly sure I paid on the day (wish I hadn't bothered though, but that was result dependant!)

Yeah, I know. And that's what (mine) the average is over the 9 league games.

Exactly as a Cas fan that is exactly how I feel as well. Even though we lost I remember the excitement going into that game it really was the most important game in our history.

I felt the same before our two NL1 Grand Finals although every fan was nervous beyond believe it is what sport should be about.

Now the franchise system has been put in place no game will ever mean that much again. The talk now is of funding been place and planning aplications I would love for it to just be about Rugby again.

think we averaged 5,500 or 5000 in NL1 - no away support in that league to to be fair apart form Widnes and Halifax!!

Completely agree with this, since the franchise system came into place the league has become boring if you are at the lower end of the table, there is no purpose to play as you will not be relegated, in my opinion nothing for the teams in the lower league to play for either as it is at the discretion of the RFL who comes up, which is completely wrong. Watching that game from 2006 really brought home what this game is about. Two LOCAL communities coming together to support their teams in the battle for survival in Super League, the best team on the day stays up! Not if your ground is good enough, or your marketing department or if you dont have another club within 20 miles of you utter garbage what the RFL are doing and i am fast loosing my appetite for the great game because of the morons at Redhall tring to make a name for themselves and write their names into the history book!

agree! the bottom end of the leaue teams should not only use the 'free time' to develop their youth, and i believe for franchise to really work and ensure every team has the ability to win titles then there should be a drafting type system as used in the NFL!! problem is i am not sure how hey could implement it on the SL!

You can bring youngsters through as well as have P+R in my opinion. Just force teams to have set number of players that are club trained and home grown and only 2 or maybe 3 overseas players. You can have the exictitment of P+R and more youngsters come through.

There is a arguement that P+R helps the teams to produce young players would Shenton have got a chance in 2005 without relagation or Owen and Westerman in 2007?

So what are the benefits of the franchise system? We still get smashed by the Aussies - No change there then. The expansion clubs continue to be in the bottom part of the league (Catalans finished 3 in 2008 i think) with little support - No change there then. So why have it?

P&R is part and parcel of sport, always has been. If you go down, take it on the chin, work bloody hard and earn you right to be promoted, not some to****s decide it for you!

The way the RFL "looks after" the expansion clubs is a disgrace!

The idea behind the franchise system is to ensure that teams have a business model in place and the RFL can fully assess that a club is ready for the top flight. The idea behind it is a good one to be fair but it takes away but as I have mentioned it takes away a lot of excitement.

Also no one can tell me the RFL were confident that the Crusaders were ready for Super League in 2008 and if they did then someones head needs to roll.

You could argue all day about the pro cons of promotion and relagation and the franchise system and I can see the logic in both but for me as a fan I believe P + R just makes the product so much more appealing.