Aside from a win against a tired and poor Hull FC team, there is little difference from now to Websters performances, especially defence and effort wise. We'd scrape by Halifax, Sheffield and maybe Salford but that's all.

Not no fans. I will admit there won't be many at this rate but there will be some. I'll be there next year, just like this year, last year and the previous 20 odd. You may think that makes me deluded, pathetic, whatever, I think it makes me a Wakefield Trinity Supporter!

I understand the doom and gloom, things don't look good but this is still my team and I'll keep supporting them while ever there is a club with the name of Wakefield Trinity.

I don't agree, but that's just where we are right now.
That same Hull team beat Hull KR and Cas. They aren't mugs.

You may be right and we may not win any games, but I feel more confident about it.
Cas obviously knocked confidence a little bit but like I said on another thread, we are not playing Cas.

We are playing
Widnes possibly without Brown
Hull KR with no Campese and a limping Kelly
Salford without Chase and very up and down in form
Leigh and Bradford are looking for scalps and look ok but have not really been tested over a sustained 7 weeks so it is unknown what they will do.
Sheffield and Halifax have some form but I don't think they will have it in the end.

Of course they could all list things about us that are weak too.......but we are not a long way away from the rest in the 8s. It's time for us to show what we have got. If that turns out to be nothing then so be it, I'll be watching the championship more than I wanted to, but we might just......and that is exciting to me.

Yes your right it does work both ways, one thing what is noticeable though is the perceived red white and blue tinted specs brigade and the unbiased posters what are prepared to wait and see what is happening before forming an opinion, they accept the opinions and over the top reactions from certain posters on here, unfortunately that's not the case with those posters who then react with insults to those with the moderate views and don't subscribe to their made up to suit theories and allegations.

The Hull team that beat Cas and Hull KR hadn't played 3 days earlier against a team that had 10 days rest. That Hull team also had halfbacks, something they didn't have playing us. No they are not mugs, but neither was it a level playing field. I'm afriad i have to agree with the original poster, except Jacob Miller who has obviously been told to stick to what he is good at and just run the ball, i have yet to see any real improvement.

Moving forward, Widnes have already beaten us without Brown this year and by all accounts he is likely to be back for the middle 8's, along with Tickle and Cahill. Kelly will be fit after resting this week and Hull KR have just signed Chisolm to replace Campese, a guy who looked decent in the world cup for France. With Salford the problem seems off the field. If that can be sorted they will be fine on it as now they have Tim Sheens pulling the strings and as much as some like to wax lyrical about Brian Smith, Sheens has a much more impressive CV than him. Leigh have already done us and Salford this season and are a real contender for the top 3. So that leaves Bradford, Sheffield and Halifax. We should beat all 3 really but our record against the Bulls isn't exactly great is it? But i can see 3 wins against the lower ranked championship teams and an away trip to either Leigh or Salford in the million pound game. Squeaky bum time. By which time all the best players will be signed up, all our better ones that are out of contract will have clubs for next year and we can go through it all again next season.

The problems at this club run from the top down all the way through the core. Right from a chairman who polarizes opinion and has a penchant for thinly veiled attacks on the fans, to the academy who once again are bottom of their league. On that note i see they (with a team including Jowitt and Crowther) lost 48-0 to Salford last night. The players throughout this club, bar maybe a handful, just are not good enough and the only replacements Smith has been able to bring in (bar a now injured Locke) are no better imho. We are having to leave our spiritual home to head out of the city and with it will go another chunk of the fanbase. Newmarket won't happen, it's about time they just came clean about that. The coaching and fitness set up isn't up to scratch and will take MAJOR investment to correct, money that just isn't there so the malise will continue. The is nothing but a skeleton backroom staff who may well work their backsides off but are too few in number to cover all the bases needed and i doubt are the highest paid workers going around, hence off they go for better jobs quite quickly.

So quite frankly going back to the start of this thread i'll 'chin up' when there is something to 'chin up' about.

You make very good points. I can't add to any of that I'm afraid.
I have no delusions about any bright lights ahead for the club as a whole but I will still delude myself enough to go and be at the games to maybe just see the miracle happening.

Why are so many been so negative how i see it is we have a 2nd chance for survival a 2nd chance teams dont normally get other then when in the franchise system.past years where relagation came into things we would of been doomed months ago now we have a chance.so what we have lost players but dont forget they where players who played in our losing run too.i have every confidence we will be ok and will finish 3rd if not its not the end of the world as long as we have a team to follow.

Now get behind the team and support them i know ill be at the first game of the 8s no matter where we play and ill be at the 6 after too

Although Sunday's game is a dead rubber as far as Wakefield are concerned.
What do you think that the result will do to the teams confidence (unless Wakefield win

)

With the loss of Locke and the swapping of 2 players for "lesser" players, it's extremely difficult to be optimistic.
Of course a couple of wins would certainly change the outlook but have we got a couple of wins in us.

What we saw against Cas in the 2nd half says NO.

Whats with the lesser player bit. We have swapped a hooker with next to no interest who was on his way anyway, for a hooker with a bit of a point to prove and more experience. I don't have any real problem with the ins and outs . Something had to change and I for one am ok with the no effort , no guts , departures. Or would you rather we did nothing .

Sorry but i'm not getting this no interest crap you keep spouting about McShane. There has been no point throughout this season he has seemed disinterested, in fact at times he has seemed like one of the few who gave a damn. Just because he may have a deal lined up elsewhere for next year, how do you knhow that all of a sudden he will throw the towel in? And if you really want to believe that to fit your argument then why would Moore, a guy who has openly stated on his twitter account that he has a contract secured at Cas next year be any different then? Sorry but your argument just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. True Moore has a little extra experience, some of the most recent of which is getting relegated last year with London. Whether you think McShane or Moore is the better player or not the point remains, where is the proof that Moore will give any extra effort than McShane would?

And you've no problem with letting Dan Smith go either ?

I know that we cant force players to want to play for Trinity but, we appear to be taking the cheaper option on all counts (apart from Locke)

Paea for Walker
Collis for Arundel
McSahne for Moore

Not mention the other departures etc.

Whe we had a new squad at the beginning of of last season, al we heard about was players needing time to gel, yet here we are with 2 weeks to go before a 7 game series, which is the most important in Wakefields history and we have more new players coming in than ever.

Of course, the squad that we had, wasn't going too well but, we look like a club in freefall.

One at a time please
I have said all along any player departing might as well get off asap. Smith was on his way much like Mc shane , the only difference for me was Smith put the effort in Mcshane wobbled about with next to no interest.
With regards to the hooking role you would expect a hooker to show skills in the speed and accuracy of the play the ball, good runs from dummy half, a half decent kicking game, the ability to go over the line from close in, and the ability to show some determination in the tackle. Now for me only one hooker in the game shows skills in all the above, most show skills in 3 0r 4 of the above. Mcshanes in this seasons shown very little any any.
Its not an argument just a point of view , you don't agree with
I quite simply don't rate him , end of.
With regards to effort I base my view on the fact I have not seen much from Mcshane and Moore would have to be frozen to the spot not to provide more.
Again not an argument just my view.
Cheers