Glad to see others have picked up on these 'dirty tactics', don't know if it's been mentioned but did anyone notice in the Wigan / Saint's game where the water carrier ran right across Foster's path as he was eyeing up a touchline conversion, The commentators just laughed about it.

Agreed. There is nothing tough or brave about what Wigan do, it's petty. Wigan don't need to slow the game down and intimidate/deliberately hurt players, they should be good enough to win it straight. What Maguire seems to want is to have his cake and eat it. It's like the pub brawl where the group of guys knock another guy out job done, but not satisfied as they walk away one turns around and runs back and delivers a kick to the head of the helpless victim, it's just not needed. I know it's a bit exagerated but you get my drift.

However what annoys me as our HKR friend points out is the blind eye our spineless and besotted media turn a blind eye to it. No other team would get away with it but such is the hold the Wigan club still have on the game not a word is said. Odd when you consider how they pinged Hudds for their rough house tactics a few years ago, tactics than look tame compared to Wigan.

Just before jonh comes on laying the law down I'm not bitter. I actually believe Wigan would have beaten us by more had they concentrated on the Rugby - I also believe their tactics allowed us to stay in the game longer and had we had a few more players available we amy have pinched that game. So in essence I don;t think Wigan even benefit that much and the game certainly doesn't, I can't see anyone outside Wigan being excited at the prospect of seeing them play, contrast that to the great Wigan teams of the 1990's.

I dont think Wigan are particularly dirty to be honest. They just play with high intensity and line speed in defence which was evident especially against St George who play similar. I dont think they slow the game down on purpose either. They just dominate their defensive sets a lot of the time which would automatically lead the opposition slowing down which is not their fault. Cant blame a team for being physically dominant. We would do the same if we could.

I dont think Wigan are bad to watch either mate. I like watching their big forwards getting stuck in. Plus during the GF of last year watching Deacon linking up with Tompkins was very good to watch. Better than the get a roll on and offload game that Leeds play which i dont like.

Oh come on, the rest maybe....

To be honest it's the amateur dramatics from Sam Whinge-kins that I can't stand.

Alwats hanging on to the player that has tackled him and then complaining to ref to try and get a penalty. As someone said earlier I can only hope that on the day he gets his come uppance the TV cameras are there so we can all watch it again and again and again.

The issue isn't about what they are doing are wrong, because the referees are permitting these activities, the issue is about whether we should wise up and start adopting some of the practices ourselves. (Obviously not the ones where we endanger opposition players, just the tactical awareness).

Regards water carriers, it is about time the refs grew some balls and told them to get off the field, it used to happen in the not too distant past but now they turn a blind eye to it.

Re the media ignoring Wigan's tactics I would say it is quite the opposite, there have been many articles this season slating the tactics used and whilst I agree with some of them I think many go OTT.

My favourite was one referencing Lima's tackle of Clarkson which made it sound like he attacked a child while 2 other grown men held the defenceless child upright.

Maguire has brought with him a new level of professionalism, much in the same way Monie did to the game in this country. We slow the play the ball down brilliantly by getting as many bodies in to the tackle as possible. I think there is also an art to working the ground but I do not like this pulling at the limbs that goes on that is unnecessary and dangerous and while it is a criticism levelled at Wigan as a whole it is generally just Lima that is doing this.

What Wigan do is not know and all the coaches coming out and slamming the wrestling tactics are hypocrites as they all try to employ them and get specialist training in them. Generally Wigan just do it better. There was the same reaction when Brown joined Hudds and now he is one coming out and moaning about it as his team are not as effective at it as Wigan are.

I find it odd that Wigan get the criticism for it to be honest. Surely the issue is with the RFL and the refs to control it. If Wigan are doing it and not getting penalised for it then they are acting within the laws of the game.

I've just had a quick check of the rules and the referees only instructions at the tackle are "play" or "held". It seems another of Cummings nonsensical inventions that referees are shouting "surrender" and "dominant" allowing extra time for defending teams to set their defence.

The game has always been simple. As soon as the tackle is completed the defenders must immediately clear the ruck. Why can this have any other interpretation. Lets get back to basics and outlaw this wrestling after the tackle is completed. The referees should stick to the rules or re-write the rulebook. The same applies to forward passes!!

The laws are there to be applied by the referees, not interpreted.

My point exactly, so when are Wakey gonna wise up? When will we adopt tactics that are proving successful? We still would not have beaten Wigan the other day, but I just cannot see other than raw enthusiasm and playing out of our skins what we are doing to tactically narrow the gap with the better sides.

As much as i'm enjoying watching these lads play their heart out, I too am yet to see any sort of worked move when attacking. I know the club don't have the players who can create but with no planned attacking moves it makes Trinity's attack so predictable the teams like Wigan are not left guessing as to what play Trinity are going to use.

The telegraphed halfd inside ball has got to stop. It's a waste of a tackle.

A few years back I recall Kear making referance to his prefered the off the cuff style of play and thats Ok when there is a Danny Brough directing play. Doesn't really help when you've got Lee, Jeffries and Hyde as the generals. I'm wondering if a change in ethos and planned attacks would reward Trinity for all the hardwork they put into games rather than being left in a situation where they've scored 1 try or less in 80% of their home games.

Brian Noble was always a big fan of play what you see rather than employing a rigid structure that Maguire has adopted at Wigan. Defences are becoming too disciplined normally for the off the cuff stuff. Try scoring plays start 3 or 4 tackles in advance to the ball being put down with coaches like Maguire and Symmons they are structured to pull the defensive line out of shape and put certain players where they need to.

... and that is something Trinity just do not do. They rely on a slip up or a missed tackle. Once they're through they generally finish it off due to the pace at the club but when up against a well drilled outfit they tend to come up blank.

Also - referees, linesman and all the other men in black (or pink/green etc) are so obviously fellas who have never taken part in a rugby game - well maybe at school where all the school thugs will have trampled all over them - and although they might know the rule book they do not know any of the real shenanighans that go on. Quite sure they are briefed about underhand tactics that have been going on for weeks/months/years but they have no real idea of what is really going on - either on the pitch or in the crafty mind that is a clever rugby player! Quite often of course they are blowing up for innocuous penalties that the majority of us have not got a clue what they are for, making themselves look very clever and efficient - and then of course missing the blatant proffesional cheating.