FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > Other team discussion |
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| Quote: Egg Banjo "I don't have an issue with it, but it smacks of hypocrisy that people are saying Salford are failing because they've just done the same as us. If Salford fans want to invest (which it looks like they do), then great, if Trinity fans want to do the same - great too
But having the audacity to do one and then call out the other is just plain ridiculous'"
They haven't done just the same as us.
Theirs is framed as fan-based club ownership, which it is not.
Nor have we sent the loan sharks round to encourage people to spend money they don't have on funding our club.
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| Quote: dboy "They haven't done just the same as us.
Theirs is framed as fan-based club ownership, which it is not.
Nor have we sent the loan sharks round to encourage people to spend money they don't have on funding our club.'"
Ours was literally introduced in an article titled:
"Become a Shareholder in Wakefield Trinity"
You can try to pretend that it's not the same type of money making scheme - but it is
And it's a gross exaggeration (lie) to call the the credit union loan sharks and to suggest that Salford are forcing people to use them.
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| As I recall it, the Trinity one was for capital, the Salford one is for revenue.
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| Quote: Egg Banjo "Ours was literally introduced in an article titled
20% APR is sharking.
The Wfd share scheme states clearly what you are getting for your donation.
The SRD scheme suggests you are entering into a fan-ownership of the club - you are not - you are getting essentially the same as a Wfd fan = you are making a one-off donation to the club.
You are correct that the schemes are fundamentally the same in reality. Unfortunately, the SRD scheme is not honest about the actual benefits.
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| Quote: dboy "20% APR is sharking.
The Wfd share scheme states clearly what you are getting for your donation.
The SRD scheme suggests you are entering into a fan-ownership of the club - you are not - you are getting essentially the same as a Wfd fan
I would suggest that neither scheme is fundamentally being completely honest with the fans, because selling anything where the benefit is titled as becoming a shareholder implies that you are buying a share in that business, when in reality that is not really the case with either.
Personally I would like to see this type of scheme removed altogether from the sport as it is predatory in nature and relies on fans making financial decisions with their hearts and not their heads
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| Quote: Egg Banjo "I would suggest that neither scheme is fundamentally being completely honest with the fans, because selling anything where the benefit is titled as becoming a shareholder implies that you are buying a share in that business, when in reality that is not really the case with either.
Personally I would like to see this type of scheme removed altogether from the sport as it is predatory in nature and relies on fans making financial decisions with their hearts and not their heads'"
Sorry but it is wrong to say that about the Wakefield scheme. They were very very clear that you were not a Shareholder of the club.
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| Quote: PopTart "Sorry but it is wrong to say that about the Wakefield scheme. They were very very clear that you were not a Shareholder of the club.'"
Then why do they say "Become a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity" if they were very clear that you wouldn't actually be a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity
That's a rather conflicted message.
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| Quote: Egg Banjo "Then why do they say "Become a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity" if they were very clear that you wouldn't actually be a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity
That's a rather conflicted message.'"
I've answered this already. Wfd clearly stateinvesting in the club.
As well as inviting those with potentially large amounts to invest, the club is intending to issue “Member shares” to supporters who may be interested in investing relatively modest amounts in tranches of £500. This may appeal to those who would like to feel a sense of ownership and be closer to the activities of the club than at present but are not seeking any voting participation or financial return and do not have a desire to take an active part in the running of the club."
Member shares - not a shareholding.
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| Quote: dboy "I've answered this already. Wfd clearly stateinvesting in the club.
As well as inviting those with potentially large amounts to invest, the club is intending to issue “Member shares” to supporters who may be interested in investing relatively modest amounts in tranches of £500. This may appeal to those who would like to feel a sense of ownership and be closer to the activities of the club than at present but are not seeking any voting participation or financial return and do not have a desire to take an active part in the running of the club."
Member shares - not a shareholding.'"
As I've said - pretend shares - just like Salford's pretend shares
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| Quote: Egg Banjo "Then why do they say "Become a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity" if they were very clear that you wouldn't actually be a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity
That's a rather conflicted message.'"
Because most of us can read more than the first line.
And once again, you've started down the line of trying to imply someone was mislead by Wakefield Trinity, even though you didn't take the offer, so weren't mislead and non of the people who gave money have complained they were mislead.
So again, I'm OK with you trying to draw similarity to Salford, though there are clearly differences, but as its been explained to you 2-3 times now, posting again that you think someone was mislead smacks of just trolling because you've got a strange issue with a member of the board rather than the share option.
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| Quote: PopTart "Because most of us can read more than the first line.
And once again, you've started down the line of trying to imply someone was mislead by Wakefield Trinity, even though you didn't take the offer, so weren't mislead and non of the people who gave money have complained they were mislead.
So again, I'm OK with you trying to draw similarity to Salford, though there are clearly differences, but as its been explained to you 2-3 times now, posting again that you think someone was mislead smacks of just trolling because you've got a strange issue with a member of the board rather than the share option.'"
I've got an issue with people who pretend that it's OK for Trinity to sell fake shares but it's immoral when another club does it. As you say though, there have been no complaints from Salford fans that they have been misled about their version of fake shares either, so it's all good
And I don't have an issue with any member of the board, I praise them when they make good decisions, and point out when they've made bad ones. Unfortunately for us all, the poor decisions have significantly outnumbered the good ones over the past few seasons
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| Quote: Egg Banjo " As you say though, there have been no complaints from Salford fans that they have been misled about their version of fake shares either, so it's all good
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There weren't many complaints from Bradford Bulls fans when they needed urgent cash to keep their club affloat. Not until it became clear that it just delayed the inevitable demise of a club on the brink and the money had disappeared.
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| Quote: Egg Banjo "As I've said - pretend shares - just like Salford's pretend shares'"
But ours aren't masked as anything other than that.
SRDs are.
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| Quote: Egg Banjo "I've got an issue with people who pretend that it's OK for Trinity to sell fake shares but it's immoral when another club does it. As you say though, there have been no complaints from Salford fans that they have been misled about their version of fake shares either, so it's all good
And I don't have an issue with any member of the board, I praise them when they make good decisions, and point out when they've made bad ones. Unfortunately for us all, the poor decisions have significantly outnumbered the good ones over the past few seasons'"
As I said I don't have a problem with that argument
But you keep saying Wakefield's 'share offer' is immoral, fake, a con, etc etc and this is wrong and is insulting to the club and the people who invested.
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| Quote: PopTart "As I said I don't have a problem with that argument
But you keep saying Wakefield's 'share offer' is immoral, fake, a con, etc etc and this is wrong and is insulting to the club and the people who invested.'"
It is fake though, they are fake shares, buying them they doesn't get you a share in the business. It's an immoral window dressing for a donation which relies on fans making financial decisions with their hearts and not their heads.
This is not just pointed at Wakefield, but at every club in every sport who exploits the good will of its fan base. We are just in a long line of clubs who has done it in the past, and I can't think of a single time it has turned out well.
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