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Quote: bren2k "I think someone has haxxored vasty's interweb.'"


Bren old boy I've not had a humor bypass I assure you but is that really needed - every time I agree with you or many others which isn't often I accept, I don't feel the need to qualify it every time I do (and this is not just aimed at you).

I don't expect folks to agree with me or like what I say or like me - but I've been involved in this game for over 20 years at many levels (even the very top in the days of Bob Ashby and co) - though at the moment I'm a bit out of touch I admit. Sometimes I'm right, occasionally wrong but I draw the line at being patronised as some village idiot who occasionally has moments of clarity. I often chose to take a contrary line so as to force the debate, don't mistake that for stupidity, I know exactly what I'm up to.

I'm willing to accept you mean nothing by it or at least hope you don't - but either way please pack it in if you wouldn't mind, thanks. icon_thumb.gif

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Quote: vastman "That's what I meant, there's more to offering a deal than just money. That said I'm pretty sure that when Snitch left the first time it was certainly down to us making a derisory offer. I like you tend to defend the old regime because we knew the pressures they were under, however I don't think it's unfair to suggest Ted could be a bit of a cheapskate where young home grown players were concerned.

I know like you that players and especially those close to them tend to paint there lad as a saint and BOD as evil monsters. This is most often not the case and it's usually the player deluded as to their own worth. That said I have heard it said time and time again that the old regime stiffed young local players and for a long time rightly or wrongly Trinity were the last team local players wanted to join. At best you have to say no smoke without fire - I reckon at least first time Snitch was one of those.

What you do highlight is yet another thing we need to rebuild, our reputation. Some players are stupid but most are not - and when it comes to deciding who to go with this is another issue that tips the scales against us.

We need the steady eddie Snitches of this world, in some ways more than the likes of Tim Smith.

Oddly the only player who seems to show genuine pride in the shirt and a desire to play for the club is Paul Aiton - he has 5 years left in him lets hope someones smart enough to build a team around him and a few others. Obviously our bad reputation never made it as far as PNG
I'm not out to defend anyone - I know they tried with some of them, but too often we were a club who tried to sell a deal we couldn't back up and hence players like Snitch would know what to expect - as opposed to what they were sold.

You are right that there is much more than money involved here and, for that, I believe the club are much much better than we were.

Someone else alluded to Glovers 10yr plan - I told him directly that I would judge the success of that by whether at that point we could rightly point to players such as Walshaw, Wildie and Trout as still being at the club. If that is the case then we will have done all the right things on and off the pitch for them to want to still be here.

As I said before - there is a gamble that we will, with time, improve towards where we want to be as a club and that, with a couple or so tweaks, we can move a bit further forward next year. We should, IMO, be further ahead than we are right now with the players we have, but there is still time to put that right and get a run going, but at the same time there are repetitive errors - as we see them - by both the players and the coaching staff - that give serious cause for concern.

They can do it, but will they? eusa_think.gif

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Quote: vastman "Oddly the only player who seems to show genuine pride in the shirt and a desire to play for the club is Paul Aiton - he has 5 years left in him lets hope someones smart enough to build a team around him and a few others. Obviously our bad reputation never made it as far as PNG
Paul Aiton is an out and out Richard Agar signing; he came to us due to to personal recommendations from players he knew who had already played for Agar - I know that for a fact.

As for TRB's point about the potential of this squad - that's not the whole picture; I think there'll be some signings for next season that will brighten people's outlook and massively improve what the team can achieve. Say what you like about RA, but players like and respect him and will come to play for him.

This is year zero of the ten year plan - it's largely about rebuilding the playing structures from the bottom up and as such, the on-field results are not yet the correct barometer of success; I'm as disappointed as anyone else about some of the performances, but Agar cannot be judged on them - that comes later, when a squad he can call his own is executing strategies and procesess he can call his own; if they're still losing then, pitchforks can be sharpened. Until then, we have to be realistic about where we are and hold steady.

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Quote: vastman "Bren old boy I've not had a humor bypass I assure you but is that really needed'"


It was a joke, you grumpy old git! icon_wink.gif

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Quote: bren2k "It was a joke, you grumpy old git!
I know but it's a tired one, I think we have moved on from that - less of the old please icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: bren2k "Paul Aiton is an out and out Richard Agar signing; he came to us due to to personal recommendations from players he knew who had already played for Agar - I know that for a fact.

As for TRB's point about the potential of this squad - that's not the whole picture; I think there'll be some signings for next season that will brighten people's outlook and massively improve what the team can achieve. Say what you like about RA, but players like and respect him and will come to play for him.

This is year zero of the ten year plan - it's largely about rebuilding the playing structures from the bottom up and as such, the on-field results are not yet the correct barometer of success; I'm as disappointed as anyone else about some of the performances, but Agar cannot be judged on them - that comes later, when a squad he can call his own is executing strategies and procesess he can call his own; if they're still losing then, pitchforks can be sharpened. Until then, we have to be realistic about where we are and hold steady.'"

It may be a long term plan we are employing but unfortunately this has become clouded by all the hype of new players, new ground, new stands etc. etc. Crowds have increased and so has expectancy of the team. The hardcore supporters will stick with the club, whatever, but the many extras who make up the recent increases may well not be so patient.
As for the on field performances it wouldn't be so bad if the team didn't collapse in the alarming way they have done in a few matches this season, I think it's at times such as that, that supporters question the heart and commitment of some of the players. probably this is why there are constant suggestions for players to be dropped! I don't mind losing as long as players have put effort in to win but sometimes it has to be questioned. Let's hope there is a suitable response against Salford!

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Ten years, too bloody long for me.
Time not on my side.
Seriously , its how we define success.
That for me would be winning more than we lose.
Surely that can be achieved in a shorter timescale.
Then any thing above that would be icing on the cake.
I was a teenager in the glory days of the sixties and lack of success took some adjusting to.
We then went on to build a team with the likes of Burke, Juliffe, Fletcher,Smith,Ashurst,Skerret, Idle.
That team for whatever reasons was dismantled and we had to start again.
Nevertheless I still used to enjoy my rugby, with players such as Belly,Billy Conway ,Andy Mason etc
You always felt that we had a chance in a game.

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A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha:41119.jpg

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This is quite a refreshing thread after all the Agar Out posts.

Personally, I agree with the timescales we are mentioning on here.
To be a top club would easily take 10 years. Warrington are a good example of how building takes time. Money didn't give them instant success.

I'd also say that short term goals are important too.
No one will remember how we lost against Cas and London if we win every game from now on. Of course there is a big in-between and we are not sure what will happen there, but I'm prepared to give it a season watching to see how that develops before we should start bringing new names in.

One thing that seems to be forgotten is that we are by no means an unskilled side.
Even against Cas, where people were saying we were rubbish, I thought we were great early on. Probably until Ali went off. We had a couple of length of the field breaks and looked very dangerous. Once Ali, and then Mathers (I think) went off to not return we were struggling in attack and then struggling with squad numbers. There are lots of reasons why we failed, most of which don't include lack of effort.

When we weren't quite getting there before Les Cats and Warrington I kept saying I thought they would really rattle up a score on someone. We did but then couldn't sustain the gains over the next couple of games.
Personally I think it will come back, with hard grounds and warm weather. We will miss Ali for a while so it isn't going to be easy for a while, but equally, maybe that's what we need for the togetherness.....

When we talk about previous squads who have lived and breathed and bled for Wakefield, they weren't born into that. They gained that spirit by facing some kind of adversary together and failing and winning accordingly. This team hasn't had chance for that yet. They may do by the end of the season but the only adversity they have faced is straight rugby game losses.

In time they will build a team spirit. It isn't just made by the coach telling you to do it.
It will come. I firmly believe it.

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