FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > New Signing.... |
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| Quote: Lorrys daily strap "True but in an ideal world you would have both, but to be fair was an amazing turnaround from catalans and leeds games.
Thought Collis smith and john looked best back combo in a long while'"
I think your out and out monster/wrecking ball type prop may well be over, however there will always be room for "some" size in the front row of course.
Bare in mind this reduction in interchanges this year isn't the end of it all, it's still going to come down further, I believe.
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| Quote: Lorrys daily strap "Come on this was a friendly - same pack pretty much got kicked up hill and down t dale by catalans, if we are going to compete up front we need a bit of beef up front and 5 foot ten 15 half stone props are ok, but not when you are playing six foot one+ seventeen stone oposition, thought amor was mom yesterday, johnson worked hard - but in days to come we will need more size and strength in front row than what we currently have.'"
Raleigh 6ft 2in 16st 7lb
Amor 6ft 2in 16st 5lb
Wilkes 6ft 2in 16 12lb
James 6ft 2in 16st 4lb
Cannot see any 5ft 10 15 and a half stone there.
Could not find Johnson.
Plus Ali at 6ft 2in 17st 5lb
not looking as lightweight as many seem to think.
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46978_1481681744.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_46978.jpg |
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| Quote: Lorrys daily strap "Come on this was a friendly - same pack pretty much got kicked up hill and down t dale by catalans, if we are going to compete up front we need a bit of beef up front and 5 foot ten 15 half stone props are ok, but not when you are playing six foot one+ seventeen stone oposition, thought amor was mom yesterday, johnson worked hard - but in days to come we will need more size and strength in front row than what we currently have.'"
Not really same pack, we were light in France with Southern & Olllie not going on the trip and Mariano missed out on the game as well.
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46978_1481681744.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_46978.jpg |
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| Quote: jacques "Raleigh 6ft 2in 16st 7lb
Amor 6ft 2in 16st 5lb
Wilkes 6ft 2in 16 12lb
James 6ft 2in 16st 4lb
Cannot see any 5ft 10 15 and a half stone there.
Could not find Johnson.
Plus Ali at 6ft 2in 17st 5lb
not looking as lightweight as many seem to think.'"
I'd have thought Ali was about 6 4" compared to the other players, looks it anyway.
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| Quote: Shifty Cat "I'd have thought Ali was about 6 4" compared to the other players, looks it anyway.'"
I would of thought so too, but got info from Wiki.
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35237_1531749291.png :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_35237.png |
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| Quote: jacques "Raleigh 6ft 2in 16st 7lb
Amor 6ft 2in 16st 5lb
Wilkes 6ft 2in 16 12lb
James 6ft 2in 16st 4lb
Cannot see any 5ft 10 15 and a half stone there.
Could not find Johnson.
Plus Ali at 6ft 2in 17st 5lb
not looking as lightweight as many seem to think.'"
PJ is 6ft 15st 10. But they are all slightly heavier than that now, Ali is actually up from 110kg to around 118kg 18st 8 ish
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10363_1334937642.jpg SUPPORT SWAG...:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10363.jpg |
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| Quote: Lorrys daily strap "Come on this was a friendly - same pack pretty much got kicked up hill and down t dale by catalans, if we are going to compete up front we need a bit of beef up front and 5 foot ten 15 half stone props are ok, but not when you are playing six foot one+ seventeen stone oposition, thought amor was mom yesterday, johnson worked hard - but in days to come we will need more size and strength in front row than what we currently have.'"
I suggest you look at their stats because most of our props are over 6 foot and around the 16 1/2 to 17 stone mark.
I think it's an illusion we have created for ourselves. We got bossed in Catalan mainly because we played crap and they played well from what I'm told - we beat Cas because they were poor and we were good. Neither result had anything to do with whose 1 inch taller or 2 pound heavier. I think we are mixing up size and the grizzled experience of the worlds best props - they are not the same thing.
What really counts up front is toughness and I agree that is yet to be proved on a consistent basis. If we get bossed in the pack it won't be down to size as these particular stats don't lie - we are big enough.
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| Quote: vastman "What really counts up front is toughness and I agree that is yet to be proved on a consistent basis. If we get bossed in the pack it won't be down to size as these particular stats don't lie - we are big enough.'"
I think I'm with vasty on this one and after yesterday's game, I have no reason to question the ticker of any of our forwards.
I stood next to Raleigh yesterday by the way - he's taller than Wilkes and up close, he looks like a bleedin' giant; at one point, I was looking round for some magic beans.
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| Quote: kinleycat "I think your out and out monster/wrecking ball type prop may well be over, however there will always be room for "some" size in the front row of course.
Bare in mind this reduction in interchanges this year isn't the end of it all, it's still going to come down further, I believe.'"
Agreed but others on this post have opinions that size is the crucial element about being a prop. It isn't of course-you only have to look at Paul Jackson to see that you don't actually need height to be a competent prop.
I think that I will now leave the prop situation to the coaching team, who have forgotten more about rugby league than I will ever know. I am presently elated by what I saw yesterday; I know Cas weren't at their best but that's because we wouldn't let them play.
I was very pleased with all the new signings on view and if Walshaw, Trout and Wildie are examples of what is waiting in the wings then I think things are looking very bright!
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| Well said sir.
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| Quote: kinleycat "Well said sir.'"
Believe me it is as I see it. Pity the BBC etc couldn't make a little mention of the result - they did manage to mention our defeats at Loiners and Catalans!
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I don't care if we win, lose or draw as long as the team gives 100% every week and each player wears the shirt with pride.: |
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| Quote: vastman "Well you wouldn't be you if you didn't find something to worry about, glass half full and all that.
We have 7 props in the squad, Amor, Wilkes, Johnson, Raleigh (and yes he see's himself as a prop), James and Trout and Spiers for emergency. How many do you need!
Come on fella, worry about it when or even if it happens.
I know where you're coming from Vasty, kinda agree to a point. Not knocking Agar as I do think he's recruited quite well thus far but here is my opinion for what it's worth;
1 - Surely we should be looking at QUALITY over QUANTITY. Is Spiers really a prop? Is Trout for that matter? Could these lads really come into a big SL game and lead the team forward? Sorry to say it, I don't think they could. Don't get me wrong I think Trout is much improved but a prop, now..... not yet IMHO.
2 - Amor: I really like this guy, huge potential, best prop at the club IMHO but the way I understand it he's not officially ours yet so we could lose him. This is a worry.
3 - Wilkes: I like Wilkes, you know what you'll get with him. Works his socks off, a real grafter and goes forward. No issues at all. Glad to have him back. But a line breaker he is not.
4 - Johnson/Raleigh: Very similar mould to Wilkes. Both players by their own admission prefer to play 2nd Row. I don't doubt they'll work hard but will they make the yards? Are they line breakers?
5 - James: Unknown quality. Fingers crossed he goes well and gives us something extra. But the jury is out and he is somewhat of a gamble at the moment.
I think generally the fans I know/have spoken to tend to agree we have some grafters and are in a far better place this season than last but the worry/concern (whatever you want to call it) is that we're lacking a bit of real size and presence up top, some real grunt and for want of a better term a line breaker.
IMHO I think we're just lacking that little bit of something extra that could be the difference between us finishing inside or outside the Top 8.
Baring in mind where we were this time last year yes I admit I'm been very picky/demanding but I really do feel that we're probably 2/3 players away from having a really good squad that *could* challenge for the Top 8.
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| Quote: Come On The Trin "I know where you're coming from Vasty, kinda agree to a point. Not knocking Agar as I do think he's recruited quite well thus far but here is my opinion for what it's worth;
1 - Surely we should be looking at QUALITY over QUANTITY. Is Spiers really a prop? Is Trout for that matter? Could these lads really come into a big SL game and lead the team forward? Sorry to say it, I don't think they could. Don't get me wrong I think Trout is much improved but a prop, now..... not yet IMHO.
2 - Amor
Pretty much spot on for me. We have a good set of forwards who will work their nuts off but they are much of a muchness. I don't buy into the theory that the rule changes negates the need for big props. Sorry but that is IMHO a load of rubbish. Take a look at the NRL, the best club competition in the world, where they have had 10 interchanges for a few years now. Has it result in a new breed of smaller more moblie props? Not at all, all teams packs a just as big, if not bigger than before. All it has done has caused the big blokes to push their fitness on further without lessening their impact. Prime example is Manly Sea Eagles. They have a guy who comes off the bench for them every week called George Rose who makes Solomona look like a fitness freak. Where he used to play in 10-12 minute spells these are now 15-18 minutes but the impact he provides remains the same. He may play less minutes than his fellow props but the extra work that the opposition has to do to contain him, attracting more men into the tackle, dragging men out of position and getting through the line more than make up for it. And how did it work for Manly? They are the NRL champions.
For me we could do with a big raw boned prop to get us going forward from our line and hurt the oppostion near theres. This would complete the squad perfectly. Whether there is one available within our price range is another matter.
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| Quote: Come On The Trin "I know where you're coming from Vasty, kinda agree to a point. Not knocking Agar as I do think he's recruited quite well thus far but here is my opinion for what it's worth;
1 - Surely we should be looking at QUALITY over QUANTITY. Is Spiers really a prop? Is Trout for that matter? Could these lads really come into a big SL game and lead the team forward? Sorry to say it, I don't think they could. Don't get me wrong I think Trout is much improved but a prop, now..... not yet IMHO.
2 - Amor
3 - Wilkes
We've got Amor for the full year with no chance Leeds can call him back, only next season have they got a option on him, it's been gone over a fair few times the Amor deal on here.
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| Quote: Theboyem "Pretty much spot on for me. We have a good set of forwards who will work their nuts off but they are much of a muchness. I don't buy into the theory that the rule changes negates the need for big props. Sorry but that is IMHO a load of rubbish. Take a look at the NRL, the best club competition in the world, where they have had 10 interchanges for a few years now. Has it result in a new breed of smaller more moblie props? Not at all, all teams packs a just as big, if not bigger than before. All it has done has caused the big blokes to push their fitness on further without lessening their impact. Prime example is Manly Sea Eagles. They have a guy who comes off the bench for them every week called George Rose who makes Solomona look like a fitness freak. Where he used to play in 10-12 minute spells these are now 15-18 minutes but the impact he provides remains the same. He may play less minutes than his fellow props but the extra work that the opposition has to do to contain him, attracting more men into the tackle, dragging men out of position and getting through the line more than make up for it. And how did it work for Manly? They are the NRL champions.
For me we could do with a big raw boned prop to get us going forward from our line and hurt the oppostion near theres. This would complete the squad perfectly. Whether there is one available within our price range is another matter.'"
See I don't go for that, I think that era has gone, it's just my opinion though.
I think people may be confused about what they want, pin pointing size which I don't think is the issue.
What people are really wanting IMHO is that rarest of breeds these days. It's the older prop, who's big enough but knows all the tricks and will take the game to the opposition by leading the charge. Paul King offered a bit of that a few seasons ago, he came on and the tide would start to turn (a bit). If I had one fear with this pack it's that it may lack the guile these old pro's offer. Of the two who may offer it I don't see it being Wilkes, he's hard as nails and a fantastic player but he's no leader unless his stint at London has changed him. Raleigh looks more likely, he looks like a bit of a thinker who could possibly do it but maybe Hudds fans (normal ones) can tell us. The others are all far to young to take on the roll for me.
Problem is I can't see one of these available anywhere because we simply don't build them that way anymore, there are few Bill Ashursts out there these days.
However I think that's why Southern and Ali where signed. Ali has the spark and Southern the graft and guts so there is a plan B.
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