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Quote: TURFEDOUT "The question of "who could have done better" is hypothetical.Because we will never know,for every name someone could suggest it couldnt be proved either way.
FWIW,I suggested well over twelve months ago - Trent Robinson.

The brand of rugby Kear has been serving up for well over a year is extremely poor.This has nothing to do with the quality of players at his disposal and everything to do with his coaching techniques.Players that have made it this far in their career,on the whole,have been coached for years in the basic techniques,they have ability!!They will have spent their years doing more than 5 drives and a kick.For anyone to suggest a player at this level doesnt have the quality to play any other way than five drives and a kick is wrong.
Kear wanted out last year.If a player wants out we let them go(normally without a fee),the logic being no point keeping a player that doesnt want to be here.I find it amazing the same people that apply that logic to players,dont apply it to the coach.

Quite frankly,you dont need a coach for the brand of rugby we play under Kear.

Someone with little knowledge of the game and of low intelligence could coach the style we play.

Even you could coach that style Vasty!!'"


That's the problem, I couldn't and neither could you.

Being a terrace coach which so many seem to be you included is the easiest job in the world - no consequences. Being a real coach like Kear is for real men - hope I'm clear on that.

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Quote: vastman "Eric Ashton coached in a completely different era, I don't think it's relevant.

Kear may well not lead us to victory and he will go eventually but now is not the time. Any coach we take on now would inherit a poison chalice. Kear has created a team from nothing, his real test is when he has the money for something, then and only then should he be judged. It's a new regime with new ways of doing things. If AG is what people say then Kear above all others deserves a chance to benefit - he deserves at least a season if we retain SL.'"



What is relevant is that saints have always changed their coach after two or three seasons (in a structured way)
don't think it has done them any harm do you ?

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Quote: snowie "When we get our new license I like to see Noble take over with Durey in the wings
fresh start
I wouldn't want Noble!

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Quote: vastman "You couldn't make it up, pure comedy gold

Totally agree Kear as done a miracle getting us 7 wins. When he had money we got our highest ever position in SL and a semi final of a cup. He didn't even have over much money. You people who are against him make me laugh. There is no coach in the world or even jesus christ that would make Josh Vievers into a Billy Slater he as done his best. Hes done great to get a team together let alone competing week in week out.

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My take on the coaching scenario is this, (and Vastman and Tricky, have both valid points) the last two seasons have ended up as a write off as far as ideal coaching and playing conditions go.
From that view point it is a little unfair to judge JK, who i think prior to this period had done a very good job.
Look at Hull KR, Morgan was the blue eyed boy of coaching a few years ago, and i would argue has far better conditions to do his job under, yet he flatters to deceive and his job is "reportedly" under threat. JK on the other hand is largely respected and is commonly linked with other jobs, that says quite a bit.
In JKs defense he was always going to be having to play the percentages this year, and as far as i am concerned if we get through it in one piece, we will have one at least 6 more SL games than many of us thought, and for that he deserves some credit.
Come next year we have a clear fork in the road, SL or Championship:

Super League, given a good playing budget, can he do more than over achieve with under achievers, can he take us a step beyond where we are, can he coach players of higher skills successfuly and can he do it consistently?

Championship, is he the man to develop a young exiting team of local/british players to develop us to become a SL side once again, a change from bottom to top in the club as a developer of fine players, or does he consider himself a SL coach and will he not be interested?

For me, the answer to both is yes, in SL he needs to be given a real chance under the right conditions to show that he is the man for us, but with a real threat of failure. If we are to find ourselves in the Championship, and we can keep him, i think he is the man to bring long term improvement to our club in a less intense environment and then perhaps have another crack at SL or to move into a more general role.

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I'm the most un-knowldegeable and unintelligent person I know! icon_cool.gif

FWIW I tend to agree with Jack in a Box (a coach should only be in place for so long) - and having witnessed the performances at Salford and Quins I do think that we are failing to make the most of the limited resources we have. Now whether that is down to coaching, lack of talent or even that the vultures are surrounding the players trying to pick off the best ones for next season and filling their heads with tales of woe in the championship, I can't be at all sure.

I do think something needs shaking up on the coaching side and, with all due respect to Mr Broadbent who has done a fine job for the club, I have to say I was disappointed that the club didn't take the opportunity to bring in fresh blood into the backroom and bring some new ideas to the club. Perhaps that may turn out to be one of Kear's biggest mistakes - who knows?

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Quote: kinleycat "My take on the coaching scenario is this, (and Vastman and Tricky, have both valid points) the last two seasons have ended up as a write off as far as ideal coaching and playing conditions go.
From that view point it is a little unfair to judge JK, who i think prior to this period had done a very good job.
Look at Hull KR, Morgan was the blue eyed boy of coaching a few years ago, and i would argue has far better conditions to do his job under, yet he flatters to deceive and his job is "reportedly" under threat. JK on the other hand is largely respected and is commonly linked with other jobs, that says quite a bit.
In JKs defense he was always going to be having to play the percentages this year, and as far as i am concerned if we get through it in one piece, we will have one at least 6 more SL games than many of us thought, and for that he deserves some credit.
Come next year we have a clear fork in the road, SL or Championship

At the end of the day there is a mechanism at the club to decide if Kear is the man. It used to be the committee now it's the BOD. As far as I can see they are the only people in a position to know the facts. Fans have aright to an opinion and to counter that opinion but that's as far as it can ever go - can you imagine a team picked on here let alone trained and given a game plan!

By any logical conclusion Kear has done enough IMO.

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Quote: jack in the box "What is relevant is that saints have always changed their coach after two or three seasons (in a structured way)
don't think it has done them any harm do you ?'"


OK, and what Saints coach in recent memory has taken over the bottom club or had most of his best players sold from under his nose in the close season. Come on it's hardly like for like is it. I'd agree to some extent if we were a stables club.

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Quote: TRB "I'm the most un-knowldegeable and unintelligent person I know!
I totally agree icon_biggrin.gif

I don't agree for the same reasons I gave Jack "OK, and what Saints coach in recent memory has taken over the bottom club or had most of his best players sold from under his nose in the close season. Come on it's hardly like for like is it. I'd agree to some extent if we were a stable club".

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Quote: vastman "I totally agree
My favourite Wakefield player and Coach was Toppo - he took us from the obscurity of Div 1 and built a half decent squad at our club - but even he would admit that enough was enough and felt that he should probably have gone a year or so before he did.

I'm not knocking John for the sake of it, we owe him a debt of gratitude which we should never forget, but we are living in 2011 and not 2006/7. I just don't think it's healthy to stay unchanged for so long and I feel the argument to keep John is the safe bet, but one that doesn't challenge the club. There's some great lines about embracing change and not being frightened of it - change would be a good thing for us, even though I accept that there are no guarantees of succes with it!

How's that for an answer? icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: TRB "My favourite Wakefield player and Coach was Toppo - he took us from the obscurity of Div 1 and built a half decent squad at our club - but even he would admit that enough was enough and felt that he should probably have gone a year or so before he did.

I'm not knocking John for the sake of it, we owe him a debt of gratitude which we should never forget, but we are living in 2011 and not 2006/7. I just don't think it's healthy to stay unchanged for so long and I feel the argument to keep John is the safe bet, but one that doesn't challenge the club. There's some great lines about embracing change and not being frightened of it - change would be a good thing for us, even though I accept that there are no guarantees of succes with it!

How's that for an answer?
Again I'd agree if Kear had been given a fair run. Like Toppo (who could be the king of grind it out RL) he's never really had the chance to build that team. Would Toppo have felt the same if he's have been able to keep Wright, Jackson and Price, I doubt it. I just think he deserves one more season to benefit from the AG culture if that culture is what some believe it to be.

That's a better answer. icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: vastman "At the end of the day there is a mechanism at the club to decide if Kear is the man. It used to be the committee now it's the BOD. As far as I can see they are the only people in a position to know the facts. Fans have aright to an opinion and to counter that opinion as long as it concurs with mine but that's as far as it can ever go - can you imagine a team picked on here let alone trained and given a game plan!

By any logical conclusion Kear has done enough IMO.'"


Edited for accuracy.

As for your comment about it being pathetic me using TRB's opinion for credibility - I don't need to and replying to any other poster than you I wouldn't have. I merely raised it because unlike the majority of people on here - you dont ridicule his opinion.

Now if TRB has a problem with that, then I am happy to apologise to him, but as he hasn't said so, why do you feel the need to jump in?

TRB
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Quote: Tricky2309 "Edited for accuracy.

As for your comment about it being pathetic me using TRB's opinion for credibility - I don't need to and replying to any other poster than you I wouldn't have. I merely raised it because unlike the majority of people on here - you dont ridicule his opinion.

Now if TRB has a problem with that, then I am happy to apologise to him, but as he hasn't said so, why do you feel the need to jump in?'"


No problem! icon_cool.gif (There isn't a Carribean smilie!)

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Millward, Noble, Powell or Aston as a wildcard would be my suggestions for an alternative coach.

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Quite a lot to comment on above so I'll just give my opinion rather than joining an existing discussion.

Before Kear came to Wakefield I wasn't that keen on his style. Just based on a few games I suppose but that's how it is.
Having now watched his teams develop I have a different view.

The number one criterea for a coach, especially at a low budget one, is to improve the skills and performance of the players in his charge. There are a long list of players who have benefitted from JK's style: Wilkes, Moore, Bibey, Brough, Korkidas all showed significant improveent, and in some cases cashed that in elsewhere.
There are others that improved within their own limitations like Paul White. He hasn't gone on to big things but he was struggling for a while at Wakefield and we got some good games out of him when he improved once dropped. I pick him only because I've seen him recently and it reminded me.

As a team the players have often punched above their weight, winning games they really shouldn't have expected to. And that applies to teams in each of the years he has been here. It isn't the same players he is doing this with, he is transferring those skills to new young teams.

In addition, the role includes managing the team off the field as well as on. Many coaches don't even have a career ending injury to manage in their team........JK has had to manage a team through 3 deaths. I'm certain most people in senior management in industry would struggle with this never mind when your results are reviewed as critically as a sports manager.
I feel he has steered the Wakefield ship (dreadnaught!) through those rough times with a great amount of personal integrity and great skill.
We have of course in that time had a further slow death of the club heading to administration. That alone is stressful enough to see many coaches jump ship.

It is easy to look at higher clubs and envy their managers because of the success but I think McRae shows exactly why that is not a fair comparison. Very successful and well liked at Sts but hasn't been able to just apply that to Salford. Very different environment.
and also, although I'm all for the continuous improvemnt is good policy that doesn't mean an automatic change of coach after a certain period of time. The playing roster at Wakefield changes so much it doesn't matter. The style changes with the team anyway. Doesn't seem to have hurt Man Utd too much keeping their guy in place.

So given all that I'm happy with what we have. I'm not saying that if we started spending big money and we decided to go for Wayne Bennett to manage a big name team that I wouldn't back the move over JK, but in our situation, whether Super League or not, in my opinion, he is the best man for the job.

102 posts in 8 pages 
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Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, PopTart , kinleycat , Wildthing



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