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Quote: kinleycat "You will find many on here that are completely opposed to the franchise system, both now and then.
Our previous owner fed the RFL a diet of bull doo doo at the time, and if we are to suffer for it, i cannot argue with that.'"


You weren't vocal enough I can tell you now. People tend to support systems they benefit from and your fans were very much in favour of the system which protected you for three years.

Quote: kinleycat "But the Franchise system is multi faceted, and in all those facets, we are significantly better than at least one club, the only point we do not secure is the geographical one, which is clearly there to add weight to quins and crusaders bids.
A point of order on the administration bit, that was removed by the RFL when crusaders hit the buffers, as they would clearly have had to remove them, so it cannot be now used against us or used to compare this franchise bid with the previous one.'"


The system was multi faceted back then too, it didn't stop the RFL from simply picking and choosing their teams from a shopping list and leaving us out based on an administration caused entirely by a crooked previous owner. It's not something which can be used to throw you out, but it will be used against you, I guarantee that. The RFL will protect their interests, you might not like it, and you wont be the only ones, but you aren't the only ones to lose out to it and you should accept that this is the way things are ran and you are simply not making the RFLs decision difficult enough. You're still in the stadium you said you'd be out of, your team is woeful, you've been through administration and your crowds are not concrete.

You think Salford are worse off, and in many ways, they're a shambles. Crowds are terrible especially for a north western team, their team has been rubbish. But they're about to finish building the stadium which could make them prosper, and so their potential has not been realised yet. If they manage to increase their crowds on the back of this like Wire did then they could be much bigger and playing in the BBCs new back yard. There are a lot of ifs in there and it could still go to the wall completely but until that's been established they will be in.

Crusaders and Quins are being protected and they have been for years, my club knows that more than anyone. We could have saved our skins by relegating quins way back but our then Chairman Tony Chambers abstained from voting the year we went down. Crusaders were no where near ready for SL when they were brought up but funnily enough we had nothing but pontificating from super league fans and people telling us we were merely bitter and to accept the decision. We were telling people about their inflated crowds, their artificial squad, their owner, how they simply were nothing more than guesswork from several over optimistic people but of course everyone knew better, until they had two spots of admin and had to move hundreds of miles away from their original site.

Well, now its your turn. Or Cas' turn. Or both. It's not necessarily fair but it's the way things are. There will be no legal action, and you will not be some championship behemoth too big for the place, you will simply slot in next to fax and feath and learn that you and everyone else is no better than them and there really is no reason to justify keeping you in SL indefinitely at their expense. Such is life, you'll learn the lessons the hard way. I don't like it either so keep your chins up and work the best you can within the system like Steve O Connor did. It's the only way.

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Quote: Chris Dalton "You weren't vocal enough I can tell you now. People tend to support systems they benefit from and your fans were very much in favour of the system which protected you for three years.

The system was multi faceted back then too, it didn't stop the RFL from simply picking and choosing their teams from a shopping list and leaving us out based on an administration caused entirely by a crooked previous owner. It's not something which can be used to throw you out, but it will be used against you, I guarantee that. The RFL will protect their interests, you might not like it, and you wont be the only ones, but you aren't the only ones to lose out to it and you should accept that this is the way things are ran and you are simply not making the RFLs decision difficult enough. You're still in the stadium you said you'd be out of, your team is woeful, you've been through administration and your crowds are not concrete.

You think Salford are worse off, and in many ways, they're a shambles. Crowds are terrible especially for a north western team, their team has been rubbish. But they're about to finish building the stadium which could make them prosper, and so their potential has not been realised yet. If they manage to increase their crowds on the back of this like Wire did then they could be much bigger and playing in the BBCs new back yard. There are a lot of ifs in there and it could still go to the wall completely but until that's been established they will be in.

Crusaders and Quins are being protected and they have been for years, my club knows that more than anyone. We could have saved our skins by relegating quins way back but our then Chairman Tony Chambers abstained from voting the year we went down. Crusaders were no where near ready for SL when they were brought up but funnily enough we had nothing but pontificating from super league fans and people telling us we were merely bitter and to accept the decision. We were telling people about their inflated crowds, their artificial squad, their owner, how they simply were nothing more than guesswork from several over optimistic people but of course everyone knew better, until they had two spots of admin and had to move hundreds of miles away from their original site.

Well, now its your turn. Or Cas' turn. Or both. It's not necessarily fair but it's the way things are. There will be no legal action, and you will not be some championship behemoth too big for the place, you will simply slot in next to fax and feath and learn that you and everyone else is no better than them and there really is no reason to justify keeping you in SL indefinitely at their expense. Such is life, you'll learn the lessons the hard way. I don't like it either so keep your chins up and work the best you can within the system like Steve O Connor did. It's the only way.'"

We shall see, you are almost certainly going to be proved right, its good to see that the RFL have learnt from their previous mistake in removing the wrong team from SL then, by doing the same thing again!!!!!
Whatever happens, we will still have our cub to follow.
Best of look for next year, i hope your bitterness disapates.

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I'm sorry to say i'm in the minority as i believe the franchise system is far superior to P & R. I've seen it work in several countries, the only downfall here is the application of franchising by the RFL.

Regarding the Franchise process last time, i think you'll find that the majority of Wakefield fans weren't happy with Widnes' exclusion especially with Crusaders admittance. At that time i remember most saying, that Crusaders simply weren't ready, which proved to be correct.

Unfortunately, for us if we are demoted, it'll force the club to evaluate their spending. Top class aspects within the club such as player development/academy, community work and our spending on marketing (TV & Radio adverts etc), will probably be destroyed and take an awful long time to rectify for 2015 and our NM move.

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Quote: Trinity Till Death "I'm sorry to say i'm in the minority as i believe the franchise system is far superior to P & R. I've seen it work in several countries, the only downfall here is the application of franchising by the RFL.

Regarding the Franchise process last time, i think you'll find that the majority of Wakefield fans weren't happy with Widnes' exclusion especially with Crusaders admittance. At that time i remember most saying, that Crusaders simply weren't ready, which proved to be correct.

Unfortunately, for us if we are demoted, it'll force the club to evaluate their spending. Top class aspects within the club such as player development/academy, community work and our spending on marketing (TV & Radio adverts etc), will probably be destroyed and take an awful long time to rectify for 2015 and our NM move.'"

You are correct, franchising can clearly work as a business model, but not the one being peddled by the RFL which is flawed beyond belief.

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Quote: Chris Dalton "snip'"



Chris, whilst I appreciate your take on the situation, as someone who has recently tasted both S.L & Championship forays, the similarities between Wakefield & Widnes are very few.

Wakefield don’t have the pleasure of playing in a quality stadium, courtesy of their Council, nor a rich benefactor, who had intimated that if Widnes failed to get a licence for 2012, he would have to review his position.

If the RFL are true to their word, and a team from the Championship is allowed entry into S.L in 2015, this would give Wakefield two years to meet the on-field criteria (Northern Rail / G.F) also to have a new ground ready for February 2015.

My biggest gripe in all this is, unlike Widnes, Salford, Castleford & Crusaders the Wakefield club has never finished in a relegation place, supporters of other sports find it baffling.

The only similarity with Widnes IMO is we were both dumped out of the top flight, after the RFL changed the goalposts mid-season.

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Quote: The Devil's Advocate "Chris, whilst I appreciate your take on the situation, as someone who has recently tasted both S.L & Championship forays, the similarities between Wakefield & Widnes are very few.

Wakefield don’t have the pleasure of playing in a quality stadium, courtesy of their Council, nor a rich benefactor, who had intimated that if Widnes failed to get a licence for 2012, he would have to review his position.

If the RFL are true to their word, and a team from the Championship is allowed entry into S.L in 2015, this would give Wakefield two years to meet the on-field criteria (Northern Rail / G.F) also to have a new ground ready for February 2015.

My biggest gripe in all this is, unlike Widnes, Salford, Castleford & Crusaders the Wakefield club has never finished in a relegation place, supporters of other sports find it baffling.

The only similarity with Widnes IMO is we were both dumped out of the top flight, after the RFL changed the goalposts mid-season.'"


1. I don't remember Steve O Connor saying anything of the sort, but when he took the job, there were several credible bids. Widnes has never been an unworkable club, we've simply been ran badly not least by the crooked owner who left us in the lurch.

2. Widnes finished second from bottom the season we were relegated. Which is where you are now. We knew it previously, which is why there were comparitively few complaints about it. But nevertheless, we were not the worst team, and we're relegated in a one off season and I'm sure you feel much the same about it. Also, Castleford were relegated even not finishing last, and the team who finished last, were safe. Under the old system, you might be in the very same position they are now. We've both been relegated to protect Catalans, one way or the other, and you simply have to move on from it when it happens.

3. The RFL have not changed the goalposts at all. You've had more than enough time to get your facilities and club in order and you've known far far in advance when D Day would be. You've had an unprecedented amount of time to ensure you are not the team going down, so far from changing the goalposts, you've really got no one to blame but the people running your club all that time. If you go down. I've got no stake in this, it matters not to me, I'm not boasting and I can completely understand your frustration. It just strikes me as odd that any of you think this is somehow unforseen and you are the only club suffering at the hands of the RFL and their new policies. Every club being left out of the top flight who has motivations to better their position is, not just you, and nobody cares about the Leighs or Barrows of this world. They're bitter small town clubs who can't see the bigger picture, until you step into their shoes.

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Quote: Chris Dalton "1. I don't remember Steve O Connor saying anything of the sort, but when he took the job, there were several credible bids. Widnes has never been an unworkable club, we've simply been ran badly not least by the crooked owner who left us in the lurch.

2. Widnes finished second from bottom the season we were relegated. Which is where you are now. We knew it previously, which is why there were comparitively few complaints about it. But nevertheless, we were not the worst team, and we're relegated in a one off season and I'm sure you feel much the same about it. Also, Castleford were relegated even not finishing last, and the team who finished last, were safe. Under the old system, you might be in the very same position they are now. We've both been relegated to protect Catalans, one way or the other, and you simply have to move on from it when it happens.

3. The RFL have not changed the goalposts at all. You've had more than enough time to get your facilities and club in order and you've known far far in advance when D Day would be. You've had an unprecedented amount of time to ensure you are not the team going down, so far from changing the goalposts, you've really got no one to blame but the people running your club all that time. If you go down. I've got no stake in this, it matters not to me, I'm not boasting and I can completely understand your frustration. It just strikes me as odd that any of you think this is somehow unforseen and you are the only club suffering at the hands of the RFL and their new policies. Every club being left out of the top flight who has motivations to better their position is, not just you, and nobody cares about the Leighs or Barrows of this world. They're bitter small town clubs who can't see the bigger picture, until you step into their shoes.'"

The RFL have moved the goalposts to suit the protection of others, by removing the administration clause from the franchise application, i am fairly confident if it had been us first, it wouldn't have happened and crusaders would have been propped up until after the 26th.
Yet again they have moved the goalposts by claiming that all clubs must submit an application, but then not bothered reading the ones, that they want in, namely London and Crusaders.
They have also moved the goalposts by letting Crusaders move from south, to north Wales and practically into your back garden but not letting us move to Barnsley, about 9 miles away.
When both ourselves and Crusaders were having financial problems, they loaned Crusaders £750K plus, we asked for half that and were refused!!!
Goal posts not moved? i think you'll find they're in a permanent state of movement.

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Quote: Chris Dalton "

2. Widnes finished second from bottom the season we were relegated. Which is where you are now. We knew it previously, which is why there were comparitively few complaints about it. But nevertheless, we were not the worst team, and we're relegated in a one off season and I'm sure you feel much the same about it. Also, Castleford were relegated even not finishing last, and the team who finished last, were safe. Under the old system, you might be in the very same position they are now. We've both been relegated to protect Catalans, one way or the other, and you simply have to move on from it when it happens.'"


Yes I know neither you or Cas finished bottom, however, that was made clear to all clubs prior to the season beginning, Wakefield were in the same boat.

But, unlike the system now, at least it was clear. The club who finished in the relegation place / places, were relegated. As opposed to, the club who The RFL & its associates deem unworthy will be dumped, with scant evidence of neither procedure nor course for appeal.



Quote: Chris Dalton "3. The RFL have not changed the goalposts at all. You've had more than enough time to get your facilities and club in order and you've known far far in advance when D Day would be. You've had an unprecedented amount of time to ensure you are not the team going down, so far from changing the goalposts, you've really got no one to blame but the people running your club all that time. If you go down. I've got no stake in this, it matters not to me, I'm not boasting and I can completely understand your frustration. It just strikes me as odd that any of you think this is somehow unforseen and you are the only club suffering at the hands of the RFL and their new policies. Every club being left out of the top flight who has motivations to better their position is, not just you, and nobody cares about the Leighs or Barrows of this world. They're bitter small town clubs who can't see the bigger picture, until you step into their shoes.'"


The goalposts I was referring to was the season prior to the whole Super de Duper system coming into being. I don’t recall at the beginning of that season, the powers that be stating that the League would by culled, and only the top however many clubs (I can’t remember how many) would join RFL paradise.

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Quote: The Devil's Advocate "Yes I know neither you or Cas finished bottom, however, that was made clear to all clubs prior to the season beginning, Wakefield were in the same boat.

But, unlike the system now, at least it was clear. The club who finished in the relegation place / places, were relegated. As opposed to, the club who The RFL & its associates deem unworthy will be dumped, with scant evidence of neither procedure nor course for appeal.

The goalposts I was referring to was the season prior to the whole Super de Duper system coming into being. I don’t recall at the beginning of that season, the powers that be stating that the League would by culled, and only the top however many clubs (I can’t remember how many) would join RFL paradise.'"

and Workington, who finished bottom IIRC.

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kcab sfrawdder Luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity Just to avoid confusion Starbug is the username of Steven Pike SOMEBODY SAID that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it!:9005.jpg



Simply by accepting your or Castlefords assertians as to either new or refurbished stadiums , the RFL are changing the goalposts from last time , even Salford will probably see the benifit of this as I dont expect the new place at Barton to be ready for the start of the season and it most certainly isn't at present

Last time you had to physically have a stadium in place at the time of the decision , Leigh had a 75 % complete stadium and it was obvious that it would be completed in time for the start of 2009 , but it was refused , yet the RFL accepted Salfords plans , Brewery Field and the nice pretty pictures they provided , and both Cas and wakeys graphics

Basically you are down , Cas will scape through for another three years , probably as a pay back of the W1g4n SC fiasco

Franchising stinks , simple as , I dont ever want Leigh to get one ' so that should give you the chance of a joke ' it simply doesn't work

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Quote: Chris Dalton "You weren't vocal enough I can tell you now. .'"



sorry mate... you wern't listening!

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Quote: Starbug "Simply by accepting your or Castlefords assertians as to either new or refurbished stadiums , the RFL are changing the goalposts from last time , even Salford will probably see the benifit of this as I dont expect the new place at Barton to be ready for the start of the season and it most certainly isn't at present

Last time you had to physically have a stadium in place at the time of the decision , Leigh had a 75 % complete stadium and it was obvious that it would be completed in time for the start of 2009 , but it was refused , yet the RFL accepted Salfords plans , Brewery Field and the nice pretty pictures they provided , and both Cas and wakeys graphics

Basically you are down '"


This I don't get.... we have given the league a signed contract for leasing Oakwell - Barnsley... a grade A stadium and we can be there from game 1 - 2012 and stay for for as long as it takes... still using belle vue as a training and admin base.

The second option are fully funded temporary improvements to Belle Vue (to B grade standard) all of which will be moved to Newmarket upon completion, and used on the training reserve grade pitch.

We have A grade marks in community, youth & development, and commercial streams the envy of most SuperLeague teams... we are already in SL and would have to practuically dismantle the organisation for the championship (including the community work which is unsustainable with the financial resrictions in the championship)... and we have fully funded plans to spend the full cap next season and beyond!

Currently we are far stronger and more stable than many in the SL and croeds and memberships are fast improving... regardless of the current poor form of the team...


YES we have been in admin... but we are not the only ones.. and have already been punished for that (double jeapordy?)

this whole scenario is really giving me the poops!

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Quote: spook2011 "This I don't get.... we have given the league a signed contract for leasing Oakwell - Barnsley... a grade A stadium and we can be there from game 1 - 2012 and stay for for as long as it takes... still using belle vue as a training and admin base.

The second option are fully funded temporary improvements to Belle Vue (to B grade standard) all of which will be moved to Newmarket upon completion, and used on the training reserve grade pitch.

We have A grade marks in community, youth & development, and commercial streams the envy of most SuperLeague teams... we are already in SL and would have to practuically dismantle the organisation for the championship (including the community work which is unsustainable with the financial resrictions in the championship)... and we have fully funded plans to spend the full cap next season and beyond!

Currently we are far stronger and more stable than many in the SL and croeds and memberships are fast improving... regardless of the current poor form of the team...


YES we have been in admin... but we are not the only ones.. and have already been punished for that (double jeapordy?)

this whole scenario is really giving me the poops!'"

You should work for the RFL Spook....on second thoughts you wouldnt get on there because you talk too much sense and apply logic to your thoughts...

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Alive n kicking:



Quote: BIGAL1 "Just because the clubs agreed not to fight it may not stop someone outside the club from doing so, anyone got any cash?'"



we need to get that camp bloke in from bargain hunt to go round the ground....arr let's start off with this a shell for a score board.....start the bidding at a tenner

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Quote: Wakefield No 1 "You should work for the RFL Spook....on second thoughts you wouldnt get on there because you talk too much sense and apply logic to your thoughts...'"



Sorry mate

way too busy working for the NSW government... similar sort of challenge though!

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POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.65M 2,360 80,15514,103
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RLFANS Match Centre
 Thu 13th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Fri 14th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Hull KR
v
Castleford
20:00
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sat 15th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
St.Helens
v
Salford
 Sun 16th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Warrington
 Thu 20th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Wakefield
v
Hull KR
 Fri 21st Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Warrington
v
Catalans
20:00
Hull FC
v
Wigan
 Sat 22nd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
15:00
Salford
v
Leeds
20:00
Castleford
v
St.Helens
 Sun 23rd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
14:30
Leigh
v
Huddersfield
 Sun 2nd Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R1
04:30
Penrith
v
Cronulla
06:30
Canberra
v
NZ Warriors
 Thu 6th Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R1
09:00
Sydney
v
Brisbane
     Mens Super League XXX-R3
20:00
Hull FC
v
Leigh
 Fri 7th Mar 2025
     National Rugby League 2024-R1
07:00
Wests
v
Newcastle
09:00
Dolphins
v
Souths
     Mens Super League XXX-R3
20:00
Castleford
v
Salford
20:00
St.Helens
v
Hull KR
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington-Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
St.Helens 1 40 4 36 2
Wigan 1 32 4 28 2
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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