FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > Is the bragging contest worth it? |
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| Quote: t-r-i-n-i-t-y "Are we talking club rugby union, football, rugby league, or many of the sports who, without Sky, would not have the riches available to them? The fact still remains, we relied on a 'sugar daddy' but the problem was he didn't have enough money to continue to support the club.
Anyway, Sky will not pull out of anything which brings in subscribers, plain and simple, they're a business. People continue to pay to watch Super League, Sky will keep the money flowing...'"
I would argue that the actions of the sport (RFL) at this moment in time are causing more disillusion with rugby league than I can remember in my lifetime. I only subscribe to sky to watch the rugby league and I am on the verge of cancelling everything which includes sky HD, multiroom and the full programs package.
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| I agree with the argument that if the RFL don't want us then we wont get a franchise.
One thing that i don't think has been brought up is the conflict of interest the the RFL has. We all know that they have loaned Crusaders 700k so therefore the RFL have a vested interest in them succeeding meaning there is a conflict of interest when deciding if Crusaders get a franchise or not. Conflict of interest, correct me if i am wrong is illegal under business laws.
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| Quote: altofts wildcat "I agree with the argument that if the RFL don't want us then we wont get a franchise.
One thing that i don't think has been brought up is the conflict of interest the the RFL has. We all know that they have loaned Crusaders 700k so therefore the RFL have a vested interest in them succeeding meaning there is a conflict of interest when deciding if Crusaders get a franchise or not. Conflict of interest, correct me if i am wrong is illegal under business laws.'"
That is very true but given the fact we are talking about the RFL, I think it will be fair to say that this issue will have been covered by clever wording in the terms of the agreement for the financial support. They want Crusaders to succeed and will go through hell and high water to make it so. They are not going to be undone by a technicality.
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| Quote: TFC "I'd be quite happy (as can be) to see Wakey go down to the national leagues, and if we get our house in order, we would have a good chance of returning to Super League. That has got to be every national league clubs hopes of course. However with the current regime that is in place at the RFL I don't see where tired old clubs like Wakey, Halifax and Featherstone fit in to the master plan that the RFL (I have come to believe) have in mind.
Obviously there may come a time when someone will take the reigns of the RFL and see a different vision, where clubs promotion and relegation will come back. I've opposed the franchising system since it came in, to me it's just a way for the RFL to cherry pick teams that get Super League status by setting their own guidelines. '"
The RFL would love a strong Wakefield side in SL. There are around 330k people in the district, thats a huge market. They would love a club representative of all those people, able to tap into that market at all levels with a Wakefield club at the top of the pyramid. It is a strong amateur area and the RFL would love a club able to take advantage of that strength.
However they arent getting that. What they have at the moment is two clubs in tired stadiums struggling to survive who spend more time fighting each other than fighting for the game. Wakefield and Castleford are the two biggest obstacles to success either face. That is what the RFL want to get rid of. The game can no longer survive as a parish v parish game, with a couple of thousand people keeping pit workers in beer money, that will kill it.
SL needs a strong Wakefield club, at the moment that is neither the Wildcats or the Tigers.
Quote: TFC "But right now, after many conversations with my pro football friends, with me defending the sport and the way it is run, I have completely admitted defeat. The sport as a game is IMO one of the best and most exciting in the world, but my attitude towards the sport has dwindled since franchising came to fruition. It has taken away that competitiveness that promotion and relegation provided, and took away the chance for clubs like Wakey, Halifax, Leigh and the rest a chance for a pop at Super League.
Hull KR got in at the right time, and they are proof that a club can rise from the national leagues and be successful in Super League, had they not been promoted when they were, they may be in a similar position to that of many championship clubs at the moment. It angers me that it now requires not a competitive playing squad and a good coach to get promotion, but money and investment. For me it has taken away all that I love about professional sport.'" P+R damaged the game, we saw it every year, we saw clubs struggling to put in place the long term plans needed, we saw a game which in some areas bounced from crisis to crisis for years. How can Wakey not have a pop at SL, they are in SL?
Quote: TFC "I really don't care if we don't get a franchise, it's our own fault at the end of the day, we have had years and years to address the issue of having a decent ground to play out of, and I think most Trinity fans agree with me. To see our board begging us for money, and moaning how they would like to just watch from the sidelines is just not good enough, and just goes to show how badly our club is being run. As such I have zero sympathy for our current situation.
However this doesn't mean to say that I will walk away from the club if we are rightly relegated. I would just like to feel as though we are on an even playing field. But I fear that we are not and could easily be brushed aside in the wake of the RFL's new love child, may that be in the form of another Welsh, French or Southern club. I would much rather the RFL be honest about their plans for the sport, but I doubt that this will ever happen and we will always be kept in the dark.'" Other areas have a right to this game just as much as the heartlands. The games current structure is weighted towards the heartlands, the RFL need and do give a leg up to the expansion sides but all that does is level the playing field.
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| I think the other leagues should break away from the 'Super' League this would allow them to get back to what Rugby League is all about, it's practically run like two different sports anyway! All the other clubs ought to achnowledge that chances of promotion are very slim anyway and work against the Super League focusing only on their own game and promoting that, they could boycott the Challenge Cup too! It would be interesting then to see how much this franchise system matters and how much the RFL really needs/wants the clubs in the lower divisions. I'd happily watch Wakefield Trinity in a lower division then!
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| Quote: Mr Slithers "I think the other leagues should break away from the 'Super' League this would allow them to get back to what Rugby League is all about, it's practically run like two different sports anyway! All the other clubs ought to achnowledge that chances of promotion are very slim anyway and work against the Super League focusing only on their own game and promoting that, they could boycott the Challenge Cup too! It would be interesting then to see how much this franchise system matters and how much the RFL really needs/wants the clubs in the lower divisions. I'd happily watch Wakefield Trinity in a lower division then!'"
And you would be happy to see them forgo their TV money, Sport England money, Grant money, Challenge Cup money, insurance, loan players, affiliations with amateur clubs, SL clubs, etc?
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| ... this is just the Rovers forum from 2007/2008, we were saying all this back then and got called 'dinosaurs'...
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "And you would be happy to see them forgo their TV money, Sport England money, Grant money, Challenge Cup money, insurance, loan players, affiliations with amateur clubs, SL clubs, etc?'"
Yep. They aren't doing us any good at the moment are they!?!?
I'd rather watch a game where it comes down to the results, not the location of the club or the colour of the tiles in the toilets.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "The RFL would love a strong Wakefield side in SL. There are around 330k people in the district, thats a huge market. They would love a club representative of all those people, able to tap into that market at all levels with a Wakefield club at the top of the pyramid. It is a strong amateur area and the RFL would love a club able to take advantage of that strength.
However they arent getting that. What they have at the moment is two clubs in tired stadiums struggling to survive who spend more time fighting each other than fighting for the game. Wakefield and Castleford are the two biggest obstacles to success either face. That is what the RFL want to get rid of. The game can no longer survive as a parish v parish game, with a couple of thousand people keeping pit workers in beer money, that will kill it.
SL needs a strong Wakefield club, at the moment that is neither the Wildcats or the Tigers.
P+R damaged the game, we saw it every year, we saw clubs struggling to put in place the long term plans needed, we saw a game which in some areas bounced from crisis to crisis for years. How can Wakey not have a pop at SL, they are in SL?
Other areas have a right to this game just as much as the heartlands. The games current structure is weighted towards the heartlands, the RFL need and do give a leg up to the expansion sides but all that does is level the playing field.'"
Welcome to the forum mr Lewis
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| Quote: thetruth "d040.gif
Actually, he has a point.
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| Quote: Mr Slithers "Yep. They aren't doing us any good at the moment are they!?!?
I'd rather watch a game where it comes down to the results, not the location of the club or the colour of the tiles in the toilets.'"
They are doing plenty of good. In fact a huge amount. Where do you think all your players come from? the amateur leagues, how happy are they going to be when you look to take their players and directly compete against the very people who give them pretty much all of their money?
You think things are bad now, take away the hundreds of thousands given the championships and the TV exposure, and the insurance, and the million and one unnoticed things the RFL do and being members of the RFL entitles you and think how much worse that would be.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "They are doing plenty of good. In fact a huge amount. Where do you think all your players come from? the amateur leagues, how happy are they going to be when you look to take their players and directly compete against the very people who give them pretty much all of their money?
You think things are bad now, take away the hundreds of thousands given the championships and the TV exposure, and the insurance, and the million and one unnoticed things the RFL do and being members of the RFL entitles you and think how much worse that would be.'"
I'm not sure you are really getting my point. The whole franchise issue is a total farce. How can you say that the RFL value the Championship clubs when they are forcing them to play year in year out for nothing?
I would rather watch a game where the results matter at the end of the season and the teams fight it our right up to the last whistle. Promotion/relegation is a necessary feature for me every year and this should be done on results, not based on a PowerPoint presentation showing what the club has to offer.
The way it's looking I wouldn't bother with your PNG in the NRL link at the bottom of your signature, sod it, if they've got a nice stadium kick another established English team out and let them into the Super League!
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| Quote: Mr Slithers "I'm not sure you are really getting my point. The whole franchise issue is a total farce. How can you say that the RFL value the Championship clubs when they are forcing them to play year in year out for nothing?'" They dont play for nothing, they play for the same reason as the SL clubs play. To Win
Quote: Mr Slithers "I would rather watch a game where the results matter at the end of the season and the teams fight it our right up to the last whistle. Promotion/relegation is a necessary feature for me every year and this should be done on results, not based on a PowerPoint presentation showing what the club has to offer.'" Why? i have no interest in watching a game to see who is the worst team in the league. I want to watch games deciding who are the best. P+R is unstable and damaging.
Quote: Mr Slithers "The way it's looking I wouldn't bother with your PNG in the NRL link at the bottom of your signature, sod it, if they've got a nice stadium kick another established English team out and let them into the Super League!
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "But that isnt the only issue is it, As much as you have attempted to argue it is. Wakefield themselves admit and are showing that the status quo as they are isnt sustainable. Franchising hasnt caused Wakefields current problems. In fact, it is not having a decent stadium that has caused it. P+R wouldnt improve this at all.'"
I agree that with P+R we would still be in a financial mess. However, i feel that with P+R we would be able to focus our efforts on to the field and stay in SL by playing better rugby and winning more games than other teams., rather than having to focus on a stadium, yes we all know Belle Vue isn't up to scratch but we would still be able to get Newmarket without the pressure of having to rush it through.
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| Quote: altofts wildcat "I agree that with P+R we would still be in a financial mess. However, i feel that with P+R we would be able to focus our efforts on to the field and stay in SL by playing better rugby and winning more games than other teams., rather than having to focus on a stadium, yes we all know Belle Vue isn't up to scratch but we would still be able to get Newmarket without the pressure of having to rush it through.'"
Haven't we known Belle Vue hasn't been fit for the job for years? It's 'our' fault we're rushing things because 'we' left it to the last minute.
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