I'm afraid in that one thread you have perfectly reflected the expansion strategy based on class inferiority which has so poorly served our game. The advances in the product have largely been nullified by the fascination with being seen as a national game. What would have been wrong with being the biggest game in the M62 corridor? The opportunity to do this was there pre FA Premier League but the administrators were too busy in Fulham and Cardiff first time.

So now we have no industry and a dwindling sport but hey whilst Wigan and Hull have top flight football teams and kids in Widnes are watching second grade rugby we are pumping money into a dead duck.

Must have missed how rugby league crowds rivalled those of football pre-1992. We've long been second fiddle along the M62 corridor, as every other sport is in this country! By expanding, or trying to, we increase the potential numbers coming through the gates and watching on TV.

Watch the crowds at Hull City tumble when they are relegated, same for Wigan. Want evidence - look at Bradford City!

Can expansion work? Yes. Does it always work? No. Has the way the Crusaders have gone so far been perfect? Not at all, but how long is it since this founder member club of the Northern Rugby Football Union lurched from one financial crisis to another? And we are far from the only one!

I have watched RL for 40 years name me one club where so called expansion as worked barr Catalan (RL heartland)
As for Bradford City average gate of 11400 this season 12700 last not bad for a 4th division side

rubber man hit the nail on the head

Whitehaven (Formed 1948)?



Fair enough, you don't think it'll work, so don't you think we should even try expand and get more people interested in rugby league? All sports other than football have to do that - from union, to basketball, ice hockey and gridiron - to get more media attention and more sponsorship money.

What you really can't judge is one club over a 3-5 year period. You have to go at it long-term, in terms of building up a fanbase and growing your own players - as Quins are just doing now after nearly 30 years of trying to establish roots.

If clubs in the heartland spend beyond their means, fail to attract new support, spend too much on even lower rate Aussies than we have in the Super League, why should they get more help?

No-one can criticise Crusaders' recruitment policy when we brought Winterstein over to this country at the expense of giving our own young talent the chance, can they?

If the South of France is a Rugby League heartland and its a European Superleague then it should follow that Toulouse, Carcassonne, Lyon and Villeneuve have just as much right to lay claim to a Superleague place as Widnes, Leigh, Halifax and Wakefield do. Far too often I hear the "but Catalans are in a Rugby League heartland" excuse trotted out only for the same person to refuse to acknowledge that clubs in the south of France have as much right to Superleague as English heartland teams. I'm happy to accept the argument that Catalans are in a Rugby League heartland, it forms the basis of my argument as to why Toulouse should be in Superleague come 2012.

I don't know why you have lumped Wakefield into your list of non SL clubs other than it fits into the current mindset on these boards re anti Wakefield stance.

I would agree though that expansion might work best if we admit more French clubs and then work on closing the geographical gap between southern France and the M62.

im all for closing the gap between us and southern france, but only if we go there, this climate is far too cold for me!

how many posters on here would vote for expansion if wakefield were the club to step down to the championship to allow a 'new' club to join SL ?

actually lets look at the facts, there isnt enough money in the game to support the clubs we have without bail outs and suger daddy's, the reported hull kr situation, one story i heard over xmas about us i didnt like the sound of much either etc etc
expansionism only will work if it brings more cash and that means more home and away fans, les cats works cos its a once a year beano for the fans we all love, would as many do it twice, i doubt it, les cats however does not work when they play away, so its a one sided gain.
The facts are wee need to get the fans in both home and travelling for the whole setup to work, otherwise we get th rugby as a sideshow to whichever x factor clown is popular that week to cover the gaps, so in reality the only option is widnes to expand the cash, not even sure a cumbrian club could bring the same impact,hate to say it though but i thin expansion is a bit ambitious at present, survival of the current set-up will be hard enough, can see less clubs rather than more.

Do you not think it should be the home club's responsibility to attract a fan base without relying on away support? How do you think football clubs survive in this country with just a handful of away fans at every game? Absolutely ridiculous argument.

in the premiership...one word, sky!
outside the premiership either sky/ benefactor or they dont in the majority of cases!

think your is by far the more naive argument try looking at some football club accounts, if you get stuck with the big numbers come back and ill explain them to you!

I have a good idea for developing the game. The team who finishes bottom gets relegated. The top team from the next league down gets promoted.

Just an idea though.