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Top six 2005 - Trinity.:



Quote: Sacred Cow "Where's this idea that we should be playing Butterworth at fullback next week come from? He's a halfback first and fullback second, in fact during his time on loan at Oldham last year he even played as a hooker more than a fullback! He didn't play in the reserves game the other week i don't think and only made a fleeting appearance in one of the pre-season games from memory so has had no game time. There's also major doubts he's anywhere near super league ready yet anyway. It's a no from me, as much for his own good as ours.'"


In the academy he played Full back mostly o believe. Certainly the ones i saw him in. Last year he played vs Leeds at full back also to cover injury. Also in pre season at full back this year.

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Quote: jonh "Atoni of those is the concern. Big debut on Boxing Day against a young Leeds side…beyond that he has been anonymous/missing in action ever since.

He really needs to step it up.'"


The go forward does need to improve for sure but that’s difficult when you’re constantly pinned in your 30/40 and coming out from deep every set. Improving set completion and tackling will give the territory to allow the forwards to get on the front foot instead of constantly bringing it out from deep.

The major issue that needs sorting before anything else is the edge defence and the wrong decisions the players are making out wide leaving the wingers 2/3 v 1.

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Not signing Shaul albeit probably a financial decision now appears to be a mistake and appears needed more than an import winger.

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Quote: Trojan Horse "I am just watching the highlights again.

Try 1 - Taufua hit the dummy runner which Lino had covered when he should have slid across to tackle the centre. This left Murphy in a 2 on 1 and a break down the wing. Lino ran behind to try clean up Taufua’s mistake in hitting the wrong man and although it wasn’t a great attempt on French Lino wasn’t at fault for the try. Taufua unfortunately isn’t a centre.

Try 2 - kick behind the winger. Lineham despite having a 5-7 yard start was beaten for pace (admittedly had to turn). Marshall is no slouch but this also happened vs Catalans when Lineham was beaten for pace. Gaskell also got nowhere near. If Jowitt was playing this would likely have been swept up.

Try 3 - didn’t notice at the time but we were 4 on 4 but Willie ISA charged through the line and shoulder charged Mason Lino who was sliding across. This caused disarray in the line and both Taufua and Murphy went for the same man leaving French on the wing vs nobody. Murphy should have been on the wing and trusted Taufua to take his man. That said this should have been disallowed with the obstruction on Mason Lino in the line. Gaskell also was jogging across the back, he should have at least go to the cover tackle.

Try 4 - Farrell was dummy runner. Corey Hall jammed in to tackle Farrell who was a dummy runner (and was covered). Ball went behind and left Lineham 2 v 1 with a lot of space. Corey Hall 100% at fault and nothing Lineham could do. Lineham had to push the centre Wardle as Hall had completely fluffed it. Langi made a good effort to almost get back to cover but to no avail.

Try 5 - Tanginoa seemed to be off the pace in getting to field. Langi charged in on field with Farrel on his shoulder it left the gap. Gaskell was stepped by Farrel when he really should have made that tackle. Gaskell really should have prevented that try. Tanginoa was limping at this point.

Try 6 - Hall failed to tackle Field. Lineham had Marshall covered and I think Hall even signalled to Lineham to cover the winger. Hall should have made the tackle but Wigan did well to create the space from scrum. It was a good move from the scrum drawing in defenders.

Try 7 - Langi went to tackle Wigan player who was already covered and tackled by Proctor. This left the edges a little short initially. Hall was covering a dummy runner (also planted stood still) but was short due to Langi earlier. Ultimately Field got on the outside of Hall yet again leaving Lineham 2 v 1 and a pass to winger meant a simple try. Langi and Hall mostly at fault here. There needs to be more trust from players to make 1 on 1 tackles.

Try 8 - Corey Hall again Jammed in on Farrell who was again dummy runner… (was this under instruction from the coaching team??). This left a 3 v 1 with Lineham!!!! Langi tried his best to cover behind but the centre passed and ran in front of Langi and then the Wigan centre flew past Gaskell. Gaskell could have got to tackle the winger but was tripped up/obstructed by the Wigan centre (on close inspection the Wigan 4 pulled Gaskell arm and swung Gaskell round. This should have been disallowed imo for obstruction on Gaskell. Langi and Gaskell both appealed to ref but fell on deaf ears it seems. The initial case though was Hall I’m afraid targeting Farrel again who was again a dummy runner.

Try 9 - drop out challenged by Taufua and Murphy. Lino and Ashurst overrun the ball and didn’t attempt to move behind to cover. Perhaps only one player should challenge. That said Lino probably should have been trying to get behind Murphy to cover any loose ball or player that may get come on the attack.

Try 10 - Corey Hall again I’m afraid. It was 3 on 3. Langi had Farrel covered and even told Hall to push out. Hall AGAIN jammed in on Farrel…. Guess what. Left a 2 on 1 for Lineham again. Langi had Farrell covered. Langi managed to make a cover tackle to no avail.

Try 11 - forward pass from hooker at 9 for the initial break missed by officials but pretty clear cut on the highlights. Regardless the halfback broke through tackles of Battye and Butler. Poor by the ref thought to miss the forward pass.

Few points…

The referee doesn’t appear to know what obstructions are.

3 trys should have been chalked off.

Langi worked really hard to try and clean up some defensive errors! Can’t fault that guy and he needs to be in centre.

Proctor looked to be working very hard in defence.

How to fix it up???

Hall needs to be careful not to get drawn into dummy runners leaving his winger exposed. Also needs to be able to read the play and be more observant. If this was a coaching tactic for Hall to target Farrel it left us exposed to overlaps.

Gaskell isn’t a full back and we’d be better even with Butterworth.

The middle forwards are not the issue at all. It went wrong between Langi > Hall a few times and Taufua > Murphy.

The halfbacks > centre > wing defence structure needs to be looked at. The jamming in from Hall and Taufua needs to be addressed.

Actually Lineham was dealt a poor hand in this game. He was left high and dry.'"


Great analytical post. Thank you.

Corey Hall gets a bit of a touch up here, which is surprising but obviously he has work to do.

And Gaskell, well, pfft

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Quote: Trojan Horse "In the academy he played Full back mostly o believe. Certainly the ones i saw him in. Last year he played vs Leeds at full back also to cover injury. Also in pre season at full back this year.'"

He may have played a handful of games there last year but the academy league is a country mile off super league level. So is the reserves for that matter, but he didn't really feature a fullback there much either, he was usually picked in the halves. Half an hour in a pre-season game against a championship club does not make him ready for the first team. Also which Leeds game last year are you talking about as he hasn't made his super league debut yet? I'd be very careful of chucking a very inexperienced young lad in what would be out of his natural position.

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Great analysis Trojan.
The only thing I'd add, is if Hall and Langi got things wrong between them, Glen the SR did too.
Hall made the wrong decisions but it would have been easier for him if he had numbers inside rather than seeing some gaps.

Unfortunately these things are only solved by drills in training and more game time.

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I said after the Salford game that Gaskell put in the worst full back performance I'd ever seen, yet here he is again. He's not quick enough for a full back. He is never anywhere near the ball.

Lineham was always worth a go, but perhaps he only works in a good side, in that he is a winger that is good at barging over from not far out, but relying on him to defend is expecting too much. I've never thought of him as quick.

Taking a longer view, the result might be a good thing. If Wigan had been at half-pace, perhaps we wouldn't recognise the need to do something about ourselves. Getting hammered might make things buck up a little. There was a reboot mid-season last year that got us out of trouble, and I think Mash was part of that.

I hark back always to the James Webster year, where we just dodged relegation. After two games we were flying, then won nothing for ages. Leeds were stinkers this time last year and got to the Grand Final.

I'm happy to wait for the response before I hit the panic button. But yes, I'll be more interested in the Leigh results than any other team.

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Our right side defence got absolutely mullered.
Having said that, Wigan were running red hot and the late changes will have caused us some issues.
However, 60 - 0 is one hell of a beating.

Maybe, Reece Lyne isn't a bad centre after all ?

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Fans rightly banging on about players leaving and not filling the voids left , but let’s not forget two of our best players either didn’t play or had very little impact last season , and that’s Tupou and Johnstone . Big Dave up front is a big loss as he could rally the troops and fans alike , but I have to say I feel if we have all the pieces of the jigsaw in the correct places at the same time we will be competitive this season , it’s when a few pieces of that jigsaw go missing that things can and do go disastrously wrong

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Miller is a big miss too imo !!

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Quote: Slugger McBatt "I said after the Salford game that Gaskell put in the worst full back performance I'd ever seen, yet here he is again. He's not quick enough for a full back. He is never anywhere near the ball.

Lineham was always worth a go, but perhaps he only works in a good side, in that he is a winger that is good at barging over from not far out, but relying on him to defend is expecting too much. I've never thought of him as quick.

Taking a longer view, the result might be a good thing. If Wigan had been at half-pace, perhaps we wouldn't recognise the need to do something about ourselves. Getting hammered might make things buck up a little. There was a reboot mid-season last year that got us out of trouble, and I think Mash was part of that.

I hark back always to the James Webster year, where we just dodged relegation. After two games we were flying, then won nothing for ages. Leeds were stinkers this time last year and got to the Grand Final.

I'm happy to wait for the response before I hit the panic button. But yes, I'll be more interested in the Leigh results than any other team.'"


It’s too soon to hit the panic button but it seems some changes have to be made.
Sorry but I only rate Gaskell as a centre and an emergency one at that. He’s not quick enough for FB and iMO not good enough for SO , he alone isn’t to blame though there’s something very wrong with our defence and the players and coaches are the ones to sort that out!

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Quote: Kettykat "Fans rightly banging on about players leaving and not filling the voids left , but let’s not forget two of our best players either didn’t play or had very little impact last season , and that’s Tupou and Johnstone . Big Dave up front is a big loss as he could rally the troops and fans alike , but I have to say I feel if we have all the pieces of the jigsaw in the correct places at the same time we will be competitive this season , it’s when a few pieces of that jigsaw go missing that things can and do go disastrously wrong'"


The really worrying aspect is that many fans believe that we have not replaced those that have gone with better players and last years "better" players only managed a 10th spot finish, which included a massively under performing Wire side.

IF we are weaker than the 2022 Trinity side, 11th spot would be a good finish icon_biggrin.gifEPRESSED:

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Quote: asmadasa "Hopefully he rings the changes….

Butterworth
Kershaw
Langi
Hall
Murphy
Smith
Lino
Battye
Hood
Whitbread
Ashurst
Pitts
Proctor

Subs
Crowther
Atoni
Butler
Eseh'"


Butterfield is nowhere near ready for SL. As bad as Gaskell was, he's head and shoulders above him.

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Quote: wrencat1873 "The really worrying aspect is that many fans believe that we have not replaced those that have gone with better players and last years "better" players only managed a 10th spot finish, which included a massively under performing Wire side.

IF we are weaker than the 2022 Trinity side, 11th spot would be a good finish
I’d was very happy with the prospect of an 11th before a ball was kicked this season. I’d be ecstatic if we got it now.

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Quote: jonh "I’d was very happy with the prospect of an 11th before a ball was kicked this season. I’d be ecstatic if we got it now.'"


And sadly the owners would’ve been too.

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