The things vasty has said in this thread are probably the most intelligent insights in this whole debate so far.

Thanks to 40 years of mismanagement, we don't have a team, any continuity or anyone on board with any sense of the 'story' of WTW; what we do have is a revolving door of transient players and staff who have no emotional attachment to the club or in many cases, the city - yet.

Mr Glover has spoken before about his ten year plan - I think that's an optimistic outlook of the task ahead; to get this club back to anything like it's glory days will take a minimum of ten years and will require blood, sweat, tears and no small amount of luck to achieve. It's do-able, but it needs the right people and the application of significant amounts of expertise, patience and shedloads of cash.

In ten years, if we're sat at NM talking about players like Trout, Walshaw and Slater as fantastic servants to the club and maybe contemplating Kyle Wood's testimonial, then it will begin to look like a success.

Well said vasty - you've summed up perfectly the issues currently facing WTW, without resorting to childish proclamations of doom and gloom, or the usual, knee-jerk 'coach out' tirade. Good man.

It's a point I've been trying to get across for a while now. Off field problems are relatively easy to solve with a bit of cash and some nouse. On field is more like alchemy than science.

It doesn't matter how good or bad you think Agar or the team are or whether they could be doing better. What matters is that we shouldn't be here at all and the blame for that lays partly with previous Coaches, players, even fans but for the most part the various boards who have failed the club.

Now we inhabit some weird kind of RL hinterland where we are neither a new club or an old one but a hybrid of the two. I don't think the RFL or the Press or pundits or other fans give us an especially hard time - I think they are ignorant of us as a club because unlike most clubs we have no continuity on the pitch where it matter. Brian Carney is fairly dim but all the same you can't really blame him for not knowing anything about our team, hell it took us half a season ourselves to work out who was who in last seasons team and it's not much better this.

One players keeps coming to mind as the players who sums it all up. Steve Snitch. Came through our Academy the hard way, couldn't gey a decent offer from the club due to too many Aussies - went away, did well - came back - did well but still couldn't get a long term deal. Yet we will fly the likes of Steve Southern half way around the world and he isn't the first or the worst.

Snitchy is no world beater, isn't even a top SL player - but - he wanted to play for us so long as we offered him a similar deal to what other clubs did - we didn't - we simply couldn't be bothered with an English player and a ranker to boot.

So after 15 years in SL we can't even field a workhorse like Steve Snitch - instead Cas have him. He should be a one club player, loyal and dependable even if not the worlds best. The fact that we don't have him (and he left pre administration) is frankly pathetic.


I don't think it matters that much who the coach is, no one and I reckon no one wouldn't struggle at our club for a few years to come. Whoever was in charge would need time which is in short supply in RL - in which case even the best would be sacked before they had chance to do anything if the mentality of those who post on here is anything to go by. Mr Glover big task is not N/M or season ticket sales that kids stuff compared to keeping his nerve where the Coach is concerned. If he doesn't the ludicrous suggestion of Poching for Coach could become some dreadful reality - and that's no dig at Poching who may well one day be a Coach, just not yet and just not learning on our time.

Top couple of posts Vasty.

Almost spot on - except that players like Snitch were offered deals to stay and yet chose to move on as we hadn't the stability or quality of the other clubs available.

Also, as Nobby showed at Crusaders and we have under previous coaches, it is possible to coach the players to perform in a more 'workmanlike' manner - i.e. to get more out of them physically. Now the question is: do we think that given time and patience that this squad of players will eventually be better skilled and better able to compete with other SL clubs - because that appears to be the six million dollar quastion that the senior officials are betting on - otherwise, if we're judging it today on what we've seen, there would only be one outcome!

totally agree for once with vasty's posts..well said sir!

Bren old boy I've not had a humor bypass I assure you but is that really needed - every time I agree with you or many others which isn't often I accept, I don't feel the need to qualify it every time I do (and this is not just aimed at you).

I don't expect folks to agree with me or like what I say or like me - but I've been involved in this game for over 20 years at many levels (even the very top in the days of Bob Ashby and co) - though at the moment I'm a bit out of touch I admit. Sometimes I'm right, occasionally wrong but I draw the line at being patronised as some village idiot who occasionally has moments of clarity. I often chose to take a contrary line so as to force the debate, don't mistake that for stupidity, I know exactly what I'm up to.

I'm willing to accept you mean nothing by it or at least hope you don't - but either way please pack it in if you wouldn't mind, thanks.

It was a joke, you grumpy old git!

It may be a long term plan we are employing but unfortunately this has become clouded by all the hype of new players, new ground, new stands etc. etc. Crowds have increased and so has expectancy of the team. The hardcore supporters will stick with the club, whatever, but the many extras who make up the recent increases may well not be so patient.
As for the on field performances it wouldn't be so bad if the team didn't collapse in the alarming way they have done in a few matches this season, I think it's at times such as that, that supporters question the heart and commitment of some of the players. probably this is why there are constant suggestions for players to be dropped! I don't mind losing as long as players have put effort in to win but sometimes it has to be questioned. Let's hope there is a suitable response against Salford!

Ten years, too bloody long for me.
Time not on my side.
Seriously , its how we define success.
That for me would be winning more than we lose.
Surely that can be achieved in a shorter timescale.
Then any thing above that would be icing on the cake.
I was a teenager in the glory days of the sixties and lack of success took some adjusting to.
We then went on to build a team with the likes of Burke, Juliffe, Fletcher,Smith,Ashurst,Skerret, Idle.
That team for whatever reasons was dismantled and we had to start again.
Nevertheless I still used to enjoy my rugby, with players such as Belly,Billy Conway ,Andy Mason etc
You always felt that we had a chance in a game.

This is quite a refreshing thread after all the Agar Out posts.

Personally, I agree with the timescales we are mentioning on here.
To be a top club would easily take 10 years. Warrington are a good example of how building takes time. Money didn't give them instant success.

I'd also say that short term goals are important too.
No one will remember how we lost against Cas and London if we win every game from now on. Of course there is a big in-between and we are not sure what will happen there, but I'm prepared to give it a season watching to see how that develops before we should start bringing new names in.

One thing that seems to be forgotten is that we are by no means an unskilled side.
Even against Cas, where people were saying we were rubbish, I thought we were great early on. Probably until Ali went off. We had a couple of length of the field breaks and looked very dangerous. Once Ali, and then Mathers (I think) went off to not return we were struggling in attack and then struggling with squad numbers. There are lots of reasons why we failed, most of which don't include lack of effort.

When we weren't quite getting there before Les Cats and Warrington I kept saying I thought they would really rattle up a score on someone. We did but then couldn't sustain the gains over the next couple of games.
Personally I think it will come back, with hard grounds and warm weather. We will miss Ali for a while so it isn't going to be easy for a while, but equally, maybe that's what we need for the togetherness.....

When we talk about previous squads who have lived and breathed and bled for Wakefield, they weren't born into that. They gained that spirit by facing some kind of adversary together and failing and winning accordingly. This team hasn't had chance for that yet. They may do by the end of the season but the only adversity they have faced is straight rugby game losses.

In time they will build a team spirit. It isn't just made by the coach telling you to do it.
It will come. I firmly believe it.