FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > Segregation |
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 1470 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 1970 | Jun 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Does it really matter whether we segregate now or say in 2/3 years at Newmarket? It's coming whether we like it as fans or not, and most other clubs have introduced it a long time ago (granted, it's easier in some grounds).
The clubs hand has been forced by these incidents, and there will always be a set of supporters who are unhappy. I'm a West Terrace fan, but i also see that the club must act now to stop this problem escalating and the ground to remain safe for all fans to enjoy the game.
Davide, came on here to clarify the situation, apologise and was open to suggestions or solutions. I'm thankful i have a better understanding as to why these measures have been introduced and feel rather sorry for the club who in reality aren't to blame, it's the 'fans', who put them in this position.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 223 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2013 | 12 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2019 | Apr 2013 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: Trinity Till Death "Does it really matter whether we segregate now or say in 2/3 years at Newmarket? It's coming whether we like it as fans or not, and most other clubs have introduced it a long time ago (granted, it's easier in some grounds).
The clubs hand has been forced by these incidents, and there will always be a set of supporters who are unhappy. I'm a West Terrace fan, but i also see that the club must act to protect now to stop this problem escalating and the ground to remain safe for all fans to enjoy the game.
Davide, came on here to clarify the situation, apologise and was open to suggestions or solutions. I'm thankful i have a better understanding as to why these measures have been introduced and feel rather sorry for the club who in reality aren't to blame, it's the 'fans', who put them in this position.'"
I don't accept that we will segregate at Newmarket formally. We will sell season tickets for set seats (and hopefully) a standing area along the touchline. Walk up fans will be able to buy un unreserved seating and gain entry to the standing areas just as they can at Warrington/Hull/Saints where you can get to pretty much every part of the ground on the gate. Key to this is the fact there is no way of identifying definitively without an ID card system of which team people are supporting.
What's to stop me or any other trinity fan turning up every home game without club colours on and standing where the hell I want?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5507 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2017 | Nov 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| The question in all this is how did the club mange to forget to communicate something as important and diversive as this? I don't buy the Leeds game being cancelled bit at all, it was twice called off on the morning of the game yet there had been no prior mention of full segregation. When exactly was the message going to come?
The time has come for the club to appoint a customer liasion officer to ensure that messages are got out there successfully and feedback taken on board and acted upon. They need to work with the supporters trust and there needs to be a point of contact with the club and a remit to sort issues out.
It pains me to say it but after a promising start the club appears to have slipped back into insular ways, a little like the old regime got chastised for. As i've said before together we are stronger works both ways. The club can't afford to be dividing fans by what in this case is poor management and handling of an issue and then sending poor Davide on here to cop the flack. It need to be proactive not reactive and make sure that the fans are seen as part of the club not just a cash cow.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3956 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2015 | Apr 2013 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: Trinity Till Death "Does it really matter whether we segregate now or say in 2/3 years at Newmarket? It's coming whether we like it as fans or not, and most other clubs have introduced it a long time ago (granted, it's easier in some grounds).
The clubs hand has been forced by these incidents, and there will always be a set of supporters who are unhappy. I'm a West Terrace fan, but i also see that the club must act now to stop this problem escalating and the ground to remain safe for all fans to enjoy the game.
Davide, came on here to clarify the situation, apologise and was open to suggestions or solutions. I'm thankful i have a better understanding as to why these measures have been introduced and feel rather sorry for the club who in reality aren't to blame, it's the 'fans', who put them in this position.'"
Ok if the club wish to keep Northstand home fans thats fine, but keep the other two stands mixed , as for bad fans get in CCTV then if they are caught fighting/being racist ban them, if they swear too much warn them, then if the countinue ban them for a month, if they do it again ban them for two months and double it each time they offend..
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 14986 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2018 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Which grounds actually enforce segregation ? i know a few, including ours, encourage away fans to sit in a certain area but they aren't forced to.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5507 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2017 | Nov 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: wildycat "Ok if the club wish to keep Northstand home fans thats fine, but keep the other two stands mixed
I agree with the fact that CCTV is a must these days, not only for catching culprits but for acting as a deterrant in the first place. Its time to get tough with the tiny minority of idiots without punishing the vast majority of fans who cause no issues at all.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 21042 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote: violetrwb "The north stand is not in my opinion a great place to view the game, some prefer standing at the end, some do not. For those that like to stand along the touchline without the sun in their face and actually see all corners of the ground then the western terrace is in my opinion the best place to do so.
I would agree that the north stand is not the be all and end all as some are saying. At other grounds I prefer to stand at the side as it is a better view. I don't like our shallow terrace at the side but have stood there.
Some people seem to be suggesting that it is all fans inherent duty to stand together in the north stand, and that the atmosphere generated there is somehow something special. The truth is that the noise generated there can barely be heard in other parts of the ground, wheras when the terraces are packed in the west and east standing areas this offers far more atmospheric value to the ground as a whole and support for the team. All that is of course subjective and broadly irrelevant to what is being discussed however.
That is just a case of you hear the noise around where you stand. Even standing at the side of the north stand you can't hear it that loud. Depends where you are.
The club have made a decision that they claim is because they're looking down the barrel of a £20k fine, something in itself is a matter of debate. The communication has been as ever amateurish, and at times on this very thread provocative and blunt. The main issue for me is that the group I have stood with pretty much my entire life on the west terrace now cannot do so, and the reason for this is because the club have made no effort to root out the trouble makers (who must number about six) and/or steward the area properly. Many of my group have already said that they will not buy memberships next year and just pay on the gate as away fans, because the best viewing position in the ground is being denied to them because of the lazy approach being taken.
Surely the club know what they are discussing with RFL better than we do. If they say £20k I'm prepared to believe it. The important thing is though that they feel they have to do something because it is not safe to not do. That is only the fault of the people causing trouble. None of the trouble is on a massive scale but it adds up and it is not nice for either away supporters or home supporters alike. I've been coming to Belle Vue since mid 70s and have rarely seen as much consistent trouble as I have over the last two seasons. Like I said, nothing major but bottle throwing on the field (Griffin seems to be a target but others too), bottle throwing at fans, Cas especially, racist abuse against Huddersfield, general antagonistic singing to players and away supporters. It's just unnecessary and only causes issues like we are having now with segregation to limit any escalation.
Key security are not impartial, the police aren't even at games, and rugby league is a family sport which thrives on fans mixing together. I don't see it as a coincidence that the encouraged segregation has coincided with more trouble, for decades there have been morons and idiots with bad language but having the fans mixed in together has always led to a great deal of self policing amongst the fans. Somebody shouts something daft and is immediately told to shut it by his peers - it's how it's always been.
That is no longer the case. In this day and age there is less peer intervention because of the numbers of people being too aggressive. Having to increase security increases costs, causes the club problems casg wise and causes us problems because it is bound to be reflected in the ticket price.
I go to the match to watch the match, yes it's a bonus if there's a fantastic atmosphere, but ultimately it's the match I want to watch, and I'd like to do that where I can see the game, and that's on the west.
I'd agree....but I'd add "safely"
The fact that Davide has come on here is admirable, but it only further highlights the haphazard approach to defining and communicating this new set of rules as he has moved position on a few points. Same old, same old from the new regime here - a poorly thought out policy, implemented poorly, and all the responses could have been predicted had they actually thought things through. Ultimately the whole thing is needless if they had the wit to tackle root cause
I disagree that it is poorly thought out in terms of decision. I do agree (as El Rey corrected me on it) that they didn't follow through with implementation and ultimately communication very well, but as I said before, if the rule is to be applied, it wouldn't have mattered when they told you, you still wouldn't have liked it.
If it means people are paying on the day rather than buying season tickets then it's more money for the club, albeit later. That might finance the security. However, if they then go to the western terrace and there is some trouble....they can't complain to the club about it and deserve criticism if it caused by them being there.
I've stood with away fans all my rugby watching life and never had any trouble personally. I argue and discuss with them, though I choose who to do it with, but significantly, I don't abuse players, I don't sing offensive songs. I don't want to be segregated, but I do want a safe environment at Belle Vue, and if the other fans can't control themselves, then it looks like we will have to have it..'"
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 21042 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote: Theboyem "I agree with the fact that CCTV is a must these days, not only for catching culprits but for acting as a deterrant in the first place. Its time to get tough with the tiny minority of idiots without punishing the vast majority of fans who cause no issues at all.'"
I'd completely agree with CCTV in the ground.
There is a cost though, but worth it in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3956 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2015 | Apr 2013 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: violetrwb "I don't accept that we will segregate at Newmarket formally. We will sell season tickets for set seats (and hopefully) a standing area along the touchline. Walk up fans will be able to buy un unreserved seating and gain entry to the standing areas just as they can at Warrington/Hull/Saints where you can get to pretty much every part of the ground on the gate. Key to this is the fact there is no way of identifying definitively without an ID card system of which team people are supporting.
What's to stop me or any other trinity fan turning up every home game without club colours on and standing where the hell I want?'"
See Newmarket is not going to change a thing some people are just hell bent on breaking the clubs wishes, yes people could do that at any ground in any sport, but you would thing people would be grown up and except a clubs wishes..
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3956 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2015 | Apr 2013 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: Theboyem "I agree with the fact that CCTV is a must these days, not only for catching culprits but for acting as a deterrant in the first place. Its time to get tough with the tiny minority of idiots without punishing the vast majority of fans who cause no issues at all.'"
Agree
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 15521 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2020 | May 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Question - who is prepared to admit that they have witnessed people they know behaving in the way that has been described by Davide? i.e racist abuse or assaulting visiting spectators in/around the ground?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 223 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2013 | 12 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2019 | Apr 2013 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| How about the club look at the following before ruining the game day experience for their long standing CUSTOMERS?
- CCTV as a deterrent and investigative tool.
- PA announcements stating a zero tolerance approach.
- Leaflets at the entrances stating what is and is not acceptable (reiterating zero tolerance approach)
- Stewards that actually doing stewarding.
- Refusal to allow entry to the ground to inebriated fans.
- Removal from the ground of inebriated fans.
- Closure of bottle bars during the game, re-open at half time.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3956 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2015 | Apr 2013 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: bren2k "Question - who is prepared to admit that they have witnessed people they know behaving in the way that has been described by Davide? i.e racist abuse or assaulting visiting spectators in/around the ground?'"
Some people will not Grass as thet call it, but at least say to them come on lads this not needed the club will get a fine and you a ban or life ban which will help no one, and tell them we need to cut it out and build a better stronger club with out the vile bits..
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 223 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2013 | 12 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2019 | Apr 2013 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: bren2k "Question - who is prepared to admit that they have witnessed people they know behaving in the way that has been described by Davide? i.e racist abuse or assaulting visiting spectators in/around the ground?'"
I have seen one incident near me, a man in his 50s shouted a racist comment at a Bradford player 3-5 years ago, he was told to shut up by about a dozen people and that was the end of it. He still stands there, or did until this week.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 21042 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote: wildycat "See Newmarket is not going to change a thing some people are just hell bent on breaking the clubs wishes, yes people could do that at any ground in any sport, but you would thing people would be grown up and except a clubs wishes..
And also, although you "could" go where you like at Hull, Sts, Widnes and Warrington, there are stewards there guiding away fans to their designated areas every time.
|
|
|
|
|
|