FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > Leading Horses to Water |
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| I think you will find that the League Express may well have made a mistake. From all the shareholders meetings that I have attended I never remember the accounts showing that there were any directors loans to the club. I do remember that there was a bank overdraft of somewhere in the region of £ 1.4 or £ 1.5 million, I suspect that the Richardson Eccles partnership put up the security for the overdraft.
So when The League Express report that WTRLFC received a part payment from Tillion and that this payment was taken out of the club to pay of Richardson Eccles loans I suspect that this money would actually have been paid to the bank to pay of the overdraft, this in turn would means that any security that Richardson Eccles had given to the banks was no longer required as we no longer had a significant overdraft. I also seem to remember someone at the top table at the recent shareholders meeting advising that we only had a £ 100,000 overdraft, so this all adds up.
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14916_1445291540.jpeg Twitter...@GINGERWILDCAT:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_14916.jpeg |
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| A couple of questions here.
1.Rebel rebel,you say Ted (Tillion)appear to have done nothing illegal,i'm not into the legal side or finance but if I sold my house,to me with a loan would that be a legal transaction?
2.I think the majority of people here think Ted's shi7 in the nest big time.Calling for his head is a perfectly natural reaction,assuming this happened and he walked away taking family and friends/employees where on earth would we stand,who'd be the captain of this rudderless ship?Answers on a postcard please!
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| Quote: kinleycat "is the making himself a preferential creditor, by pocketing the £750k, legal?'"
The ground was sold 3 years ago. We weren't in administration then, and we still aren't (yet).
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| Quote: JINJER "A couple of questions here.
1.Rebel rebel,you say Ted (Tillion)appear to have done nothing illegal,i'm not into the legal side or finance but if I sold my house,to me with a loan would that be a legal transaction?
2.I think the majority of people here think Ted's shi7 in the nest big time.Calling for his head is a perfectly natural reaction,assuming this happened and he walked away taking family and friends/employees where on earth would we stand,who'd be the captain of this rudderless ship?Answers on a postcard please!
I wrote that there's no evidence to show he acted illegally (yet). So certain accusations levelled against him are potentially libellous and shouldn't be made until we know what the full situation is. That's not to protect his neck so much as to protect this message board, btw, before anyone reaches any wrong conclusions.
As for your question, Jinje, if you own your own home, you don't need to buy it off yourself again, mate. If anyone tells you otherwise, don't believe them.
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50722_1319672516.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_50722.jpg |
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| Quote: JINJER "1.Rebel rebel,you say Ted (Tillion)appear to have done nothing illegal,i'm not into the legal side or finance but if I sold my house,to me with a loan would that be a legal transaction?'"
In theory, it's perfectly legal for companies to create new entities (and there are plenty of options that suit different circumstances, not just the bog standard Limited Company) to manage assetts, secure credit lines, be tax efficient or to spread liabilities. My company does it all the time, as do lots of others.
There is however a vast difference between what's legal and what's right; if Ted & Co have, as seems to be suggested, secured their own financial future by contriving a deal around Belle Vue that enriches them whilst impoverishing the club then yes, he should be hounded out of Wakefield never to return. If he's done all of that whilst publishing his ridiculous and insulting begging letter, then clearly he has no integrity, no regard for the club and total contempt for the people who spend their money in his grubby little corner shop.
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14916_1445291540.jpeg Twitter...@GINGERWILDCAT:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_14916.jpeg |
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| Quote: RebelRebel "I wrote that there's no evidence to show he acted illegally (yet). So certain accusations levelled against him are potentially libellous and shouldn't be made until we know what the full situation is. That's not to protect his neck so much as to protect this message board, btw, before anyone reaches any wrong conclusions.
rl]As for your question, Jinje, if you own your own home, you don't need to buy it off yourself again, mate. If anyone tells you otherwise, don't believe them.
And that's the point I crudely attempted to make!!
You going to Toulouse next year?
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| Quote: JINJER "You going to Toulouse next year?
Looking forward to it already (assuming they don't get offered a franchise too, in which case, see you in Barrow).
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| Quote: bren2k "There is however a vast difference between what's legal and what's right; if Ted & Co have, as seems to be suggested, secured their own financial future by contriving a deal around Belle Vue that enriches them whilst impoverishing the club then yes, he should be hounded out of Wakefield never to return. If he's done all of that whilst publishing his ridiculous and insulting begging letter, then clearly he has no integrity, no regard for the club and total contempt for the people who spend their money in his grubby little corner shop.'"
And that's where the distinction lies.
I'm not sure how he's managed to secure his own financial future through the sale, though. He is in an IVA, after all.
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| Quote: RebelRebel "And that's where the distinction lies.
I'm not sure how he's managed to secure his own financial future through the sale, though. He is in an IVA, after all.'"
Theres ways and means.
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| Quote: RebelRebel "And that's where the distinction lies.
I'm not sure how he's managed to secure his own financial future through the sale, though. He is in an IVA, after all.'"
Fair point - I'd concede that without evidence, I probably overstated that part.
It's worth mentioning though that IVA's, bankruptcy, administration etc can all be used very proactively by people with the right advisors and sufficient nouse to move their assets into the appropriate legal entities; Ted being in an IVA doesn't necessarily mean he's worrying about how to put chicken nuggets on the table.
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| At the moment, he has got us right by the chicken nuggets!
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| Quote: bren2k "Ted being in an IVA doesn't necessarily mean he's worrying about how to put chicken nuggets on the table.'"
Probably more concerned with how to hide the gold nuggets under it.
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| Completely agree that the whole situation is very un-ethical.
However in relation to selling the ground etc in the eyes of the law the club (WTW Ltd or what ever the exact name is) has sold the ground to a completely separate legal entity. There is nothing wrong legally here at all despite the fact that it is owned by the same individual or group of individuals who are doing the selling.
However and here is the accountant side of me talking, what should have happened in order to make it a legal transaction was for the sale to take place at arms length and at a fair price. That is to say as long as the club had the land valued at a fair price and the sale was done in a legal manner with all the correct paper work then there is nothing incorrect here.
In the accounts at the back in the additional notes the company would have to disclose that the sale was undertaken between "related parties" so that the readers of the accounts could see with transparency what had actually happened.
And here is where the potentially un-ethical nature of the transaction potentially gets worse. Wakefield being a small company only disclose abbreviated accounts and therefore do not necessarily have to show these notes on the accounts submitted to companies house or for that matter a profit and loss account. Given this any body having a quick look would not necessarily see the details of the transaction involving any related parties.
Full details would have to be given to shareholders via a full set of annual statutory accounts at the AGM.
But unfortunately there is very little anyone can do – I would have thought that someone with a bit of cash would have consulted with the relevant legal experts before committing to the transaction
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| Would Ted have been able to complete the sale of Belle Vue with just his signature?
Or would the signature of other directors been required?
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| It really depends on the mandate set down by the clubs articles but having said that it would normally require two signatures - certainly the case at firms i have worked for.
Normally the finance director and managing director/CEO would be required.
Just depends upon who else is on the BoD and what if anything they would have benefited from the sale of the ground
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