As they are with every other club in the game that had such pay plan agreements, the RFLs actions has undermined the stability of many clubs with this irresponsible act.

If the actions of the RFL in propping up the Wrexham club now mean that we potentially face going out of existence, rather than 'merely' into administration, then the share issue is a pretty straightforward choice, and has nothing to do with a SL future or a Championship future, just a future full stop.

Putting aside my view about the fact we should not have yet more unpaid tax bills, what I don't understand is that the HMRC are running the risk of getting much less than they are owed by this act. They had agreed a deal with the club on a payment schedule and should not renege on that agreement because of the RFL's shennigans.

Is it purely the tax man that has put us in this dire position or are there other things as well. This is what the club need to be open about

Well if that is the case really the club still only have themselves to blame for being so in debt to the tax man in the first place, it is always going to be a risky game owing that much money and there is always a chance they will demand it back.

Also the RFL could not really stop the Crusaders going into administration and I would have thought it is the fact that they did not the RFL letting them that has down graded the credit rating of RL teams. I suppose the other option would be for the RL to have paid their debts for them, and Im sure every one would have loved that. The 700,000 grand loan that every one is moaning about is a result of them stopping them going into administration the first time.

The RFL have been fools in giving special treatment to expansion teams, but this started long ago with no relegation and as many imports as you like.

No the clubs have undermined themselves buy being in debt, and if it effects every one why could they all not have spent within their means.

I think it's pretty clear to us all that the club has been run on a shoestring and we've walked along a knife edge financially. We’ve pulled up trees and produced rabbits and doves from every top hat in the county in order to survive. The unexpected revoking of the payment plan and demand for payment up front is something we just cannot service. The PI removed a planned £350K from the operating budget, The RFL refused to help via a £350K loan even after they had done the opposite for Crusaders (£700K). The uncertainty over our franchise seems to have cost us a new very wealthy backer and sponsorship has been hard to sell due to the same uncertainty.

This £700k loan to Crusaders keeps getting mentioned a lot. Is there any actual evidence of it?


I'm aware (from news reports and RFL statements) that Crusaders owed money to the RFL. And that an agreement was reached on payment (possibly part-payment) of it as a condition of their readmittance to SL this year. I'm not aware that the debt was as a result of a loan (apart from comments on these boards) - the RFL seemed to imply it was owed for services rendered. I'm also not aware of a source for the figure of £700k (apart from people writing it down on these boards).

You could hire one of the top consultancy firms in the world for 6 months and it wouldn't cost you GBP 700k for what effectively was one mans time

Dealing with HMRC and their "time to pay" agreements on a regular basis, they can't and wouldn't reverse any written agreement because of a third party matter.

The only way the agreement would cease to be in place is if the terms weren't adhered to (terms which will always include the payment of all future tax liabilities, together with the agreed instalments against arrears, as and when they fall due).

Interesting, so are the BOD still not being entirely honest. They need to issue a statement saying exactly what the money is to be used for.

The 700K was the costs run up by the RFL in effectivly running a SL club from its last days ay Bridgend till it was up and running at Wrexham. It was all kept quiet at the time and when anyone dared to ask question they were quickly shot down as anti expansionists. It would have probably all been washed under the carpet had they not gone bankrupt.

I wouldn't mind betting that due to this being the sum it cost the RFL last time, even more money has been given this time and no one has got the wind of it so far.

I know this is nothing to do with our plight but I hope it helps.

Quote: tb "This £700k loan to Crusaders keeps getting mentioned a lot. Is there any actual evidence of it? I'm aware (from news reports and RFL statements) that Crusaders owed money to the RFL. And that an agreement was reached on payment (possibly part-payment) of it as a condition of their readmittance to SL this year. I'm not aware that the debt was as a result of a loan (apart from comments on these boards) - the RFL seemed to imply it was owed for services rendered. I'm also not aware of a source for the figure of £700k (apart from people writing it down on these boards).'" I don't know if the £700k figure is correct or not, but the 'loan' is the advance of funds to the club at the end of 2009 referred to in this article.... m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/dec/ ... pe=article The Wrexham people agreed to repay this funding and absolved Samuel of his liability. Needless to say, the advance funding was not repaid. The RFL have now converted it into an interest free loan over 10 years according to reports. So its not so much a case of the RFL giving Crusaders 'new' cash but allowing them to convert a current liability into a long-term one.

Quote: tb "This £700k loan to Crusaders keeps getting mentioned a lot. Is there any actual evidence of it? I'm aware (from news reports and RFL statements) that Crusaders owed money to the RFL. And that an agreement was reached on payment (possibly part-payment) of it as a condition of their readmittance to SL this year. I'm not aware that the debt was as a result of a loan (apart from comments on these boards) - the RFL seemed to imply it was owed for services rendered. I'm also not aware of a source for the figure of £700k (apart from people writing it down on these boards).'" I don't know if the £700k figure is correct or not, but the 'loan' is the advance of funds to the club at the end of 2009 referred to in this article.... m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/dec/ ... pe=article The Wrexham people agreed to repay this funding and absolved Samuel of his liability. Needless to say, the advance funding was not repaid. The RFL have now converted it into an interest free loan over 10 years according to reports. So its not so much a case of the RFL giving Crusaders 'new' cash but allowing them to convert a current liability into a long-term one.

They would if it was within the bounds of a consortium agreement with, say, a sport's governing body and decided to pull out of that agreement.

In fairness I have not read all the previous 14 pages of posts so if someone has raised this then my apologies.
If this were to suceed and 500 people owned 50% of the club then would those 500 people be responsible for 50% of the clubs debts ?
I am one of the £25 shareholders and could be interested in participating but (and it is a big but) there is a lack of real information.
I was unable to attend the shareholders meeting for personal reasons though I would probably still be as confused if I had been there.
It appears that people are expected to agree because of their love for the club. Well maybe there has been one too many false dawns and at some stage you feel like shrugging your shoulders and walking away. This is sad but true.
I don't want to see our club die but my enthusiasm is wanning and I doubt I am alone.

bet me to it, looks that way to me.