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| Quote ="Sacred Cow"Not really, he has to shoulder his share of the responsibilty of the blame for the situations we keep finding ourselves in. He's the guy that makes the final decisions on things like coaching, marketing, signing off the budgets, etc at the end of the day. And he's the one who the buck stops with regarding getting those budgets up. Continually being a bottom feeder club means he's getting some things wrong. It not all him obviously and there are always some mitigating circumstances but sorry, he isn't blameless here either as some seem to think.'"
I agree he's not blameless, but he isn't 100% to blame like the initial posters said.
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| Quote ="lampyboy"Sorry but what you need is a forward thinking adaptable board, one that's prepared to invest in entising more support and increasing expenditure accordingly.
THE CLUBS A JOKE and doesn't deserve the loyalty it obtains'"
Like building a better stadium?
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| To be fair I think the OP has a point.
Now, before I’ll go any further, this is not a dig, or the Carter hate campaign, but this is how I see it.
At the top, he will make, along with John Minards, the key and crucial decisions, but hopefully just off the pitch, but some of these will involve contract negotiations, whether it is extending deals, or offering deals to new players. It’s plain to see that our recruitment has been poor now for about 3 seasons, so therefore, he has to take some of the blame.
On top of that, he clearly put the ball in the court of the fans this year for season ticket and merchandise sales, to be high, to improve the squad. To me, that means we are becoming self sufficient, and little or no investment is being made by him or JM.
If that is the case, what purpose is he serving on a day to day basis, we could have someone else, who wants to come on board, while the club stand still or go backwards
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| There is little doubt the club is going backwards and the Carter no club argument can’t last in six years the club is on a downward spiral. Maybe time for Carter to openly put that club up for sale if he can’t or refuses to invest.
There maybe little or no interest but unless he does this nobody will ever know.
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| Quote ="Eastern Wildcat"To be fair I think the OP has a point.
Now, before I’ll go any further, this is not a dig, or the Carter hate campaign, but this is how I see it.
At the top, he will make, along with John Minards, the key and crucial decisions, but hopefully just off the pitch, but some of these will involve contract negotiations, whether it is extending deals, or offering deals to new players. It’s plain to see that our recruitment has been poor now for about 3 seasons, so therefore, he has to take some of the blame.
On top of that, he clearly put the ball in the court of the fans this year for season ticket and merchandise sales, to be high, to improve the squad. To me, that means we are becoming self sufficient, and little or no investment is being made by him or JM.
If that is the case, what purpose is he serving on a day to day basis, we could have someone else, who wants to come on board, while the club stand still or go backwards'"
I imagine probably because as an investor, you would aim to take out at least what you had put in. I imagine, although not at all knowledgeable on how it works, he would probably want to take out what he has put in...which I cannot imagine would leave us in a great position.
If he sold it...I cannot imagine who the hell would buy it currently.
And if he sold it for £1 as has been suggested in social media, who then has the additional funds needed to invest.
Not sure what the solution is.
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| We need an attacking coach and fast. If we have one already then we need to hand him his p45 tomorrow morning and find another one.
Zero creativity and scoring 6-18 points a game will see us relegated.
As for people blaming the players, sorry but I don’t buy it. What they do on game day reflects how they train through the week. No off the ball runners, no clever passing, nothing. God help us, even under Kear we had five drives and a kick. Now we don’t even contest the kick!
This lies right at the door of Carter and Minnards. Poching has clearly not got the answers so they need to get him the help that he needs. No one else can resolve this.
Tough decisions to be made and they are the decision makers.
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| Quote ="PopTart"Like building a better stadium?'"
Sadly, you could base this cub in Wembley stadium, PT, and you still wouldn't pull in the crowds or improve the team.
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| Quote ="Wildcat26"Who made the decision on the coach? There seems to be this idea that because MC saved the club and has done a good job at stabilising us that he is untouchable when it comes to criticism, its sickening to listen to sometimes. Of course we appreciate the work he has done for our club, he is obviously trying to get it right but sometimes he doesn't.
Being honest, with the situation we found ourselves in at the time of CCs departure, I thought WP was the wrong option for us, we were crying out for an overhaul and we gave it to someone that was not only part of the previous coaching set up but also has never been a head coach, I like Poaching and I want to see him to succeed, its obviously not an easy job but for me we are only going one way now.'"
I think that's a fair post. I think everyone recognises what Michael has done but how long can you live off that? 4 seasons? 5 seasons? 10 seasons?
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| Mc resign now
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| Having read all the posts on this thread it seems that even some moderate posters think MC is blameworthy to some extent.
We're all entitled to our opinions, of course, but if the posters criticising MC are right have they got an alternative in mind?
All I can see is a bloke keeping the club in a stable financial position with the least money in SL.
Trevor Woodward who was the Chairman last time we got to Wembley used to say, if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.
Trevor splashed money out signing players right left and centre. Ok, we got to Wembley but lost and the team dismantled faster that it was assembled and we've been in the financial mire ever since.
We need a massive cash injection otherwise, it's more of the same.
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| Do we necessarily need a sugar daddy though, like Ken Davy.
I don't know, but I would guess we were well below the cap in 2017, and we went pretty close to a top 4 finish. The year before that in a challenge Cup semi final, albeit, second best.
This with crowds of about 5k, so still under the magic 6k figure
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| If anyone thinks anything is going to change if we stay up this year, then they are in for a shock. By churning out dogger performances again and again and yet again relying on other teams performances to keep us up by the skin of our teeth, who are we going to attract to join us compared to any other team in SL. Which player in their right mind is going to sign for us when there’s a decent chance we won’t be in SL, and then they are screwed finding another team last minute.
I’ve watched the tries and the first one was like watching an primary school kids play on a field, swinging him around by his top. Absolutely embarrassing.
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| There is certainly a poor product on the pitch and has been for a few years. This is 2019 all over again.
The mistake made was giving Willie the job. If he was head coach material, he would have become it before now. Some people are just meant to be assistants, and Willie is one.
We've been here too many times: head coach has a slump. We sack him and appoint the assistant, who enjoys a revival. Assistant gets the job full-time, who has a worst slump and doesn't last a year.
I said it at the time and hoped I was wrong. Turns out I'm not. And Willie isn't helped by having a pack that has looked poor for years.
But apart from appointing a bad head coach, the club is well run, stable, a new ground on the way.
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| Quote ="Travelling Wilbury"Do we necessarily need a sugar daddy though, like Ken Davy.
I don't know, but I would guess we were well below the cap in 2017, and we went pretty close to a top 4 finish. The year before that in a challenge Cup semi final, albeit, second best.
This with crowds of about 5k, so still under the magic 6k figure'"
Course we do. Saying we don’t need money and competing 6/800k behind most teams is like an RS3 trying to compete in F1, it’s simply not a level playing field. Sadly you pay for what you get, the tactics of playing ‘Money Ball’ is over, we never built on these decent seasons and just look at where we are now.
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| Quote ="Travelling Wilbury"Do we necessarily need a sugar daddy though, like Ken Davy.
I don't know, but I would guess we were well below the cap in 2017, and we went pretty close to a top 4 finish. The year before that in a challenge Cup semi final, albeit, second best.
This with crowds of about 5k, so still under the magic 6k figure'"
I agree, but we can never maintain it. We had a good run when Solomona was here, but once again we couldn't hold on to such players.
We need a good combination. Money alone won't do it, but it certainly helps. A top class, proven coach helps,good management is essential also.
I started to watch Trinity in 1960 and money was available. We had a top class coach and a classic chairman in Stuart Hadfield - result - a decade of success until the money ran out!
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| There was more than enough quality on show today to come away with the points , it’s lays squarely at the players feet , not Carters or poaching’s . Where were the elder statesmen of our team leading by example today , who was the captain today rallying his troops . The Difference today was simply , one team wanted it more , it’s not rocket science, ,all they had to do was get stuck in and show some pride, effort and passion in their game and job was done .
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| Quote ="Pat Bateman"Course we do. Saying we don’t need money and competing 6/800k behind most teams is like an RS3 trying to compete in F1, it’s simply not a level playing field. Sadly you pay for what you get, the tactics of playing ‘Money Ball’ is over, we never built on these decent seasons and just look at where we are now.'"
Not sure what the number of season tickets sold would have would have been, but 2500 adult memberships from a crowd of 5000 would sound about right, would bring in close to £700k, added into that, the money we get from sky would be close to the cap limit anyway. That doesn't include revenue from sponsorship and merchandise.
Hopefully, when the new stand is up, they'll have meeting and function rooms that can be hired out, that could potentially make money 365 days a year.
Yes, they need a backer, but not necessarily one thst pumps in six figure sums every year
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| Quote ="Travelling Wilbury"Not sure what the number of season tickets sold would have would have been, but 2500 adult memberships from a crowd of 5000 would sound about right, would bring in close to £700k, added into that, the money we get from sky would be close to the cap limit anyway. That doesn't include revenue from sponsorship and merchandise.
Hopefully, when the new stand is up, they'll have meeting and function rooms that can be hired out, that could potentially make money 365 days a year.
Yes, they need a backer, but not necessarily one thst pumps in six figure sums every year'"
I’m pretty sure we’ve lost £500k this year with the new sky deal so we are running 6/700k under the 2.1 million cap. In order to attract more fans we need a decent side, I don’t think it’s a case of ‘if they build it they will come‘. I feel we do need a financial backer to help us attract better players to not constantly be bottom floating, then when it comes to signing new players they won’t be worried whether we will be in SL next year.
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| Trouble is these backers don't exist.
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| Quote ="Roverman1"Trouble is these backers don't exist.'"
100%. Hence why we are cutting our cloth accordingly and skirting around the bottom of SL year after year. It’s very frustrating being a Wakey fan to say the least
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| Quote ="Pat Bateman"I’m pretty sure we’ve lost £500k this year with the new sky deal so we are running 6/700k under the 2.1 million cap. In order to attract more fans we need a decent side, I don’t think it’s a case of ‘if they build it they will come‘. I feel we do need a financial backer to help us attract better players to not constantly be bottom floating, then when it comes to signing new players they won’t be worried whether we will be in SL next year.'"
Are we the only club to lose out with the current sky deal though?
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| Obviously the money is important, that goes without saying. But it isn't just that, it is also about new ideas and/or a new way doing things. Everybody has a shelf life at a company but in sport that life span is shorter than most, things tend to go stale quicker. Players, coaches & yes owners all require changing eventually. Maybe the time has come? Something has to change though as we are stuck in a rut and have been regressing every year for five years.
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| Quote ="Travelling Wilbury"Are we the only club to lose out with the current sky deal though?'"
A lot of SL teams have owners who put their own money into their respective clubs to subsidise these loses in order to reach full cap and more with marquee players etc. Obviously MC can’t do this, he is running it as a business. I don’t think many SL teams will run at a profit, maybe St’s or Leeds. The rest run at a loss, though are financially backed in order to carry on.
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| Quote ="Sacred Cow"Obviously the money is important, that goes without saying. But it isn't just that, it is also about new ideas and/or a new way doing things. Everybody has a shelf life at a company but in sport that life span is shorter than most, things tend to go stale quicker. Players, coaches & yes owners all require changing eventually. Maybe the time has come? Something has to change though as we are stuck in a rut and have been regressing every year for five years.'"
I totally agree with all this. You only have to look at football and Man Utd to see you can have all the money yet can still be in a real mess. It runs deeper than money, but I still think money plays a big part in building a stable future. Unfortunately we’ve not had the privilege of being able to experience said financial clout.
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| Quote ="Roverman1"Trouble is these backers don't exist.'"
Of course they exist,it just needs the people with the right skills etc to go out and find/get them
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