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Quote: bigchris "You should of gone in a half time ahead and when you scored first in the second half you should of kicked on. You didn't and that was in no small part due to Bulls having the better attitude and raising their game. In the second half our pack got on top and started making easy meters, your players couldn't cope and that's where the penalties came from.

Am i right in believing that was pretty much your full strength side, with just Amor missing?'"


Should have.

Amor, Mariano and Ellis injured at the moment. But its pretty much full strength yes.

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Quote: Wildthing "Should have.

Amor, Mariano and Ellis injured at the moment. But its pretty much full strength yes.'"


Yes should have! icon_surprised.gifops:

Thanks for your reply.

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It comes down to Agar's comment at the fan forum that he conceded our pack was light and so would have to play more intelligently. This seems to mean going round them than through them. I suppose we are paying the price for our recruitment. No big prop rotation and no goal kicker. I presume it is down to no one suitable being available and so you play with what you've got. If you look at the first 50 minutes, we were good. It was the way we lost the plot in the final 30 minutes that leaves a sour taste. If we had defused a couple of those early kicks, I think it might have been our game. Even for their first, Collis hardly contested the ball at all. Just let the Bradford guy get in front of him.

The problem I have is that we have lost two home games that we should have won, and was in our ability to win, and both of them were probably four-pointers for a play-off spot.

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Quote: bigchris "Yes should have!
No problem icon_biggrin.gif

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Agar has got his recruitment wrong for mine. Its ok playing nice fancy rugby but the platform has to laid first and our pack will lose more battles than it will win purely due to a lack of size. We lost the ruck again yesterday and it slows our attack down and speeds theres up, hence BJ having all day to put those kicks in. The fact the we didn't have the intelligence to adapt is another point and this isn't helped by our captain playing out of position and having to be spelled. Matt James would have been available for us yesterday if we wanted yet we played a second rower at prop instead. Can't agree with that tactic i'm afraid. And to go into the season without a goalkicker is just plain stupid and the missed kicks effects the confidence of the entire side. And despite our extensive recruitment of better quality players we have lost two games at home that we won last year.

Forget the talk of being a top 8 contender, we won't be close.

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Quote: Theboyem "Agar has got his recruitment wrong for mine. Its ok playing nice fancy rugby but the platform has to laid first and our pack will lose more battles than it will win purely due to a lack of size. We lost the ruck again yesterday and it slows our attack down and speeds theres up, hence BJ having all day to put those kicks in. The fact the we didn't have the intelligence to adapt is another point and this isn't helped by our captain playing out of position and having to be spelled. Matt James would have been available for us yesterday if we wanted yet we played a second rower at prop instead. Can't agree with that tactic i'm afraid. And to go into the season without a goalkicker is just plain stupid and the missed kicks effects the confidence of the entire side. And despite our extensive recruitment of better quality players we have lost two games at home that we won last year.

Forget the talk of being a top 8 contender, we won't be close.'"



Now thats a suprise, most people i've spoken to believe these signings are not down to him, already signed up before he arrived.

If thats the case Agar is in the same boat at wakey, to the boat he sailed at FC.

Thats what i heard anyway.

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Theres no doubt that some players were brought in before Agar arrived but some of the ins and outs are down to him and some of the choices made, like failing to recruit a kicker and releasing Moore, has to come down to him.

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Quote: Theboyem "Theres no doubt that some players were brought in before Agar arrived but some of the ins and outs are down to him and some of the choices made, like failing to recruit a kicker and releasing Moore, has to come down to him.'"



I agree, if its Agars call to release Moore without a decent kicker in the side it does seem a little foolish.

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Quote: BIGAL1 "
Quote: BIGAL1 "Theres no doubt that some players were brought in before Agar arrived but some of the ins and outs are down to him and some of the choices made, like failing to recruit a kicker and releasing Moore, has to come down to him.'"


Can we get him back? Kiss and make up?
Would he want to come back though
I agree, if its Agars call to release Moore without a decent kicker in the side it does seem a little foolish.'"


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Quote: frogcat "you must have that wrong somewhere mate.
i watched his team with a load of academy players and young blokes take more or less the same bradford side to bits last season. so strictly speaking you are wrong mate'"


Different circumstances though mate.

Kears last game
Those lads had played 26 games prior to that one together (or at least a large number had)
Bradford had nowt to play for

vs

Almost whole new team
3rd game in still getting used to each other and structures in place
Bradford coming off a hiding against Wigan with a point to prove

A Kear coached team IMO would not have won that game (and certainly not with the squad we have - given it is not suited to 5 drives and a kick)

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Quote: Tricky2309 "Haven't trawled through all the previous pages, but this is my take on the game.

We were the best side in the first half when the momentum and penalty count was in our favour but failed to turn the possession we had into enough points (partly due to an atrocious forward pass call when Kirmond had set John clear, and a poorly executed pass from Aiton when fox had the line begging). We then compunded this by giving an interception try away just before half time. Consequently, instead of going in probably 2 scores up, we were actually 2 points behind - I know if I was in the Bradford dressing room at half time, I would have been very happy to be ahead on the balance of play.

Second half, we gave away some silly penalties which gave Bradford the momentum and the field position and unlike us in the first half they did turn it into enough points. Having said that had we not missed the 3 conversion attempts (2 of which were relatively starightforard) and another atrocious forward pass call not have ruled out Mellars try towards the end, we would have been 6 behind with 3 to 4 mins left with the potential of a draw on the cards. Even taking out the missed conversions, the Mellars try would have made the difference 14 and if converted 12.

We need to make up our minds what we are going to be happy with. I said at the start of the season that due to the massive turnover of players, I would be happy to see us play some entertaining rugby and compete. So far this season in every game, I have seen us move the ball around well and would argue that even yesterday we competed overall despite the lopsided scoreline and poor second half discipline and inability to defend the Jeffries cross field kick. We are only in round 3 and the team and the systems are still settling down.

The team need our continued support and whilst I am as frustrated as the next man that we have lost two games that we could and probably should have won, I am still happy to give it and to give these players particularly the halves some time to settle in.

IMO Smith and John whilst not breaking any pots are doing a reasonable job overall considering its only game 3 of their partnership. John's vision spotting Kearney at marker and putting in a perfectly weighted kick allowed us to score the first, he would also imo have scored from good support play had Kirmonds pass not been called forward. His defence is good and whilst I would like to see him take the line on a bit more (which I think will come with more game time), I think he is doing ok (the interception was just one of those things). I think both John and the team would benefit from him being relieved of goalkicking duties, which I think is putted unwanted extra pressure on his shoulders.

Smith has created 5 or 6 of the tries we have scored this season (roughly half) and was also I believe the architect of the move that should have led to Mellars try, with a neat short kick through. Also his kicking in general play was pretty decent getting good distance and finding open space more often than not. I think the partnership may be broken up for couple of weeks though as I am sure Smith will be called before the disciplinary for his face rake on Jeffries and probably cop a few matches. If this happens, will be interesting to see how we fair without him.

I know I may be in a minority, but I don't think we are far away from being a good side who will win more than they lose. If we take more of the chances we create that will help, and defensively I think the two main areas are numbering up and defending the crossfield kicks better, and working harder at marker to stop teams getting a roll on with quick dummy half runs - something that both KR and Bradford have exploited to great effect.

IMO this team is only going to get better and we just need to have the patience to allow them to fulfil their potential. Bagging the likes of Smith and John after 3 games, is not going to help matters.'"


My thoughts exactly eusa_clap.gif eusa_clap.gif eusa_clap.gif eusa_clap.gif

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Quote: TRB "The point I was trying make is that the team need some control and that is what John was noted for. These are better players with better conditioning, but the rugby is crap because there is no platform to play off.

I do think John would have got more from the game last night, but we need more than that in the long run.'"


The rugby is crap? - Its some of the most entertaining enterprising rugby in the first half and if things would have gone our way we would have been 18-6 up at least.
We lost the plot in the 2nd half.

I was bored to tears sometimes with JK's play.. It'll take time for us to develop some more compsure and a better ideas of where players are. We've 18 new players got to give them atleast half a dozen games.

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Quote: BIGAL1 "I agree, if its Agars call to release Moore without a decent kicker in the side it does seem a little foolish.'"


I told you before and believe what you want or ask players you know, moore was forced out by agar, and no matter what the official spin was, the lad decided enough was enough at being ostracized for no reason, similar to how Mathers was at Cas. Im sure the lad would come back in a heartbeat but it wont happen while Agar is in charge.
Even if agar did not see him as his starting choice, at least now he would have an option as no goalkicker and no kicking game, and isaac John not really doing a great deal of anything. If Tim Smith was to get injured then there would be a real problem because he appears to be the only one making anything happen on occassions.

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I think the fundamentals of kicking and catching need serious work!!! plus Bradford were running from dummy half 4 out of 6 plays in the first half and none of our players seemed to realise this!!! we had no control of the ruck meaning Bradford could run riot..

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Quote: BIGAL1 "I agree, if its Agars call to release Moore without a decent kicker in the side it does seem a little foolish.'"


It was and it was not foolish it was personal, and without saying he would have ripped the league, he certainly would have offered a far superior kicking game, and goalkicking option than any of the current squad offer.
Now would have been the perfect time to bring in Moore, as clearly John in the 4 games I have seen has done very little. This only shows why Agar's coaching ability has always been constantly questioned by Hull fans.

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