Who says?

We continued a winning streak when he was playing - whether that was down to him is debatable. Clearly Agar didn't see what you see, I'll go with the coach who has all the facts.

As Bren suggests, there are opinions - yours and mine - and expert opinion - Agar and his staff. As I've already stated Ill go with the experts.

They are not infallible though - sometimes they get it wrong - it's human nature.

In this case we are balancing the squad size and covering positions against money against ticking the right boxes for home trained players etc.

Of the young kids we have produced, 2 of the more senior players are Wood and Wildie, with already having Smith, Sykes and Aiton, that's 5 half backs for 3 to 4 positions (depending on whether you interchange). Both Wood and Wildie will have been on less than Ellis (I imagine), and Ellis doesn't count as home produced.

So I think in this case the side has suffered as a result of the balancing act required - I guess its a reminder of how we cannot yet spend to the cap and where we are in the food chain.

Is that based on anything concrete, or just a convenient way of ascribing some blame on the coach when a player you personally like is let go?

For me, 'face doesn't fit' is apt when talking about, for example, Mathers situation at Cas, but unless you know something that's not in the public domain, I don't see how it works here?

I think the lack of opportunities until it was enforced suggests his face didn't fit, or at best Agar didn't rate the lad.

Of course they are not that's why so many don't have a job. All of what you say is correct but it wasn't really what I was digging at. What I dispute is how anyone on here you and me included can honestly think we have a better grasp of tactics and players than the coach - and we are all guilty of it. None of us know the players personally or train with them day to day or know the game of RL like they do.

They may make mistakes but at least they are informed mistakes. Fans on the other hand fall into the "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" category. Hence we can enjoy a heated debate about tactics and players on here all day long just so long as we never actually believe we know what we are talking about - and far to many do IMHO.

As Wayne Bennett famously stated "if you listen to the fans you end up sat with them" never a truer word IMHO

That will be us then, not all the other numpties - Ill go along with you but only just. Because I honestly don't think we have enough in depth knowledge and any real understanding of the team dynamic. I know it annoys me when people from outside my work group come in every now and then giving half baked opinions. Despite the fact that most of the time they have no real idea what's going on.

As for not listening to the fans and get sacked is a bit flawed IMHO, I mean exactly which set of fans should he be listening to. It's not like we speak with a unified voice, in fact some sets of fans seem to have opinions that are probably the result of lunacy or inbreeding. For the sake of his sanity the coach has to chuck a deafy to all fans as he has no idea who are the sane and who are the insane.

Actually I think our winning streak last year coincided exactly with Ellis replacing Aiton in the squad. IIRC.

I don't know in this case but i will say that you'll see has you progress with junior RL that "face dosen't fit" does indeed have many faces within our game.

Its rife within RL at all levels and always will be, players come and go and its not always playing ability or budgets that decides this.

I don't for one minute think our club or our coach are any different.

It did and it didn't. The unbroken streak up to the play offs yes. However we started playing well before that and were winning games. Si they were both involved in the better rugby we played. I don't want to belittle Ellis in any way as he did a good job but he wasn't the be all and end all and he wasn't IMHO responsible for the winning street but just part of the machine.

It's not just RL it's life.

I myself am brilliant at almost everything I do but it's rarely recognised

I get that Al, but I just don't see how a professional coach would refuse to use a player who he knew to be better than the other options, purely out of spite; I can see how it might happen in some jr and amateur set-ups, but when a bloke is being paid and judged on results and performances, I can't see it being the case in all but a very few instances.

It doesn't have to be spite Bren.
Sometimes decent people go unnoticed in many walks of life.
The phrase about not knowing what you have until its gone etc, etc.
Also, Ellis may not be the best no 9 in SL or the CC, but whatever he was within our team
last season, it worked and tbf to the lad, he only got his chance last season when Aiton was out injured.
Therefore, it's easy to conclude that his face didn't fit with RA.