That's true but applies to a lot of previous winners I suspect, luck, their drop goal win v us for starters.. It's more the style played than the results that have impressed most people RE Cas.

Had Percy converted at 20-18, would Cas have done something different at the restart? Would Saints have scored a winner had he made it 20-20? Saints were chasing the game with 5 to go, had it been 20-20 would they have pushed it? All ifs and maybes.

Cas got out of jail is a given, they were also winning the match for the vast majority of it.

Absolutely, and it works both ways. If Saints hadn't got that bit of luck in the last minute against Wakey, Cas would have probably been playing some one else.

I've just had a look at that site. Some very strange voting going on.

I dont agree when Vasty says Cas dont have good players, they have some top drawer players. I detest Cas, I cant stand seeing them win, I could not watch the semi final against Hull and I will not be watching the final. I hate that Box is going to give them a civic reception in Wakefield ( should be at some wmc in Cas ). I think Vasty was disagreeing with me in pre season, his position being that Cas were poor and would not win anything , my position was that I thought they would finish top two. Indeed I think Vasty owes a charity of my choice £ 20. Cas very sadly have a great coach and several great players.

Certainly wasn't trying to diminish their achievements. They have been great this year and Saints did not deserve to be in the Final over the course of the year.

I watched it in a Sports bar in Keswick. We were watching it on one silent TV as there was European football on and that had the rest of the screens and the commentary playing. When Cas scored after two minutes, the whole pub cheered. The barman switched every TV to the rugby as it was obvious that was what everyone wanted to see, and everyone wanted Cas to win. They'll have most of Old Trafford behind them on Saturday.

We played Saints in the semi> Do keep up old boy.

1. What do you mean you don't agree with me! Read my post again I clearly state they have good players but not exceptional. Some have had exceptional seasons but that's not the same.

2. There were two parts to that bet, the other was that you said we would end up bottom nowhere neat top 8 so you also owe me.

I suggest we pay a tenner each to a charity of this forums choice and if anyone else wants to eat humble pie and chip in then great.

I nominate Help the aged for Chissitt sake .

Anymore suggestions and we could start a poll?

Call it the humble pie fund?

I'm fully on board with the idea that Powell has crafted a team that is significantly more than the sum of its parts; but I'd contest that Luke Gale & Ben Roberts are standalone exceptional players who'd get into most SL sides.

The list of non-exceptional players who execute their role in a well drilled side is extensive; McKeeken, Minikin, Eden, Webster, Shenton, Springer, Hardaker, McShane for starters - and several of those for whom it isn't too late, could go on to become exceptional. Four of five just from that list will be targets for the traditionally perceived 'bigger' clubs in future seasons, as will Powell himself; keeping what he's created there intact and on top, will be a real challenge.

Cas are an exceptionally well coached and well trained side, with a fantastic team spirit and a brilliant attitude to open, attacking rugby - with sufficient dog in them to do the dirty stuff when required; lots to admire, as much as it hurts. I hope they win on Saturday.

Id put Hardaker in your high level band with Gale personally.

I suppose it's what you call exceptional. To me it's a very short list.

To me Sam Burgess was the last exceptional player we produced then before him Ellis then Farrell and Sculthorpe. I may have missed a few but you get the idea. World class is what I call them, the best around.

Hardaker isn't anywhere near but you didn't drop that particular clanger.

Roberts, he's classy not exceptional.

Gale is the interesting one. If he keeps his form up and repeats it next season and at International level then yes I'd agree. He's certainly not far off.

To me he's the only possible exceptional player they have, I can't imagine anyone they could replace him with that's for sure. I can with Roberts.

There may be a few others in the making at Cas I don't know but it needs to be judged long term.

As I say it's whatever your idea of exceptional is, mines pretty strict.

A long career, total consistency, a master of your position, a genuine international, a game breaker and a match winner.

If it helps the only one we have had at Wakefield in my time was Solomona. Bell never pushed himself, Ellis was at the start of his career and Ray Price at the end.

You want to have a think about that one?

Well I think `high `is correct

If you're upping the ante to world class now, then I'd agree - there are very few of those in the whole of SL; pick the best in their position from any SL team, and there's probably several ahead of them in the NRL.

But - in terms of the original proposition; I maintain that they have several players who could, and probably will in future, walk into any SL side.

And based on new information, I'm demoting Hardaker from my list; the lad's thicker than a submarine door.