Cannot disagree with your posts on this subject.Totally agree.

Agree totally.

Whilst we obviously need someone towards whom we can direct our spittly indignation, the figures you quote without context clearly don't tell the full story.

Andrew Glover took over the club in February 2011. He honoured the season tickets that had been purchased to that point in time, the club saw no benefit from merchandise that had been purchased up to that point either, and he also took on some of the historical debt the club had incurred. The 2012 season, IIRC, saw the construction of the roof over the north stand and part of the western terrace. If the accounts for these 2 years reflect the loss of income and expenditure, then I'd say we've done a damned sight better than many SL clubs in far more enviable positions than ours.

Some of those costs he may have borne himself. Others will have been converted into directors' loans. Either way, to throw it all at his doorstep is a little unfair, IMO.

I agree with you that RL is not something that any "investor" would consider to be a profitable investment, and like you, I see no reason either that with a move to a new stadium, this club could not be self-funding, or better. Belle Vue offers limited opportunities for generating additional income beyond match days. To operate at break-even or a modest profit out of Belle Vue would be a massive achievement, and down to a large degree of luck. Modern facilities just off the M62 will be far more attractive, and sponsorship revenue should increase considerably too, with the better opportunities for advertising they offer.

In the meantime, it's up to the supporters. If we get that one-in-a-million sugar daddy, then great, but simple maths says we won't, so the problem is ours.

I agree with you totally, and not just to counter the trend.

I don't think anyne would be playing RL if the wages were any lower.

I started work at 18 so will probably work 45 years, currently on around 20k.

If I were a RL player, I'd have to earn 60k in my 15 year (max) career to equal that - and that's assuming my wages will stay the same for the next 40 years.

I honestly was shocked to find that scholarship players at clubs get absolutely nothing - not even travel expenses. Their "earnings" during that time is their training. And even their first contract at 17/18 is only in line with what they'd earn in a day job.

I agree that player's wages are THE drain on the club's finances, but pay players any less and it won't be financially viable to be a professional RL player, and we will go back to part time.

Catch 22 really.

If I were a businessman then I'd suggest alternative methods of generating/saving money. But I aren't, so I can't.

Not that I begrudge the wages that players earned, but it's not like they can't work beyond their playing careers. Most used to double up with work in any case. The only argument against the current trend is that at 32 and with no other training or experience it can be tough to find a new path that pays well.

A lot of players seem to have awoken to this now and are finding ways to make the transition to civy street in readiness.

"Lots" seem to open gym's, become personal trainers or sell herbalife long before they even pack in playing the game.
As TRB has said the end of their RL career is not the end of their earning capabilities.
I think for what they do many of them are very well looked after indeed, but the problem with the fully pro game is that without Sky money it is completely unsustainable and with a blink of the eye we could go straight back to where we were pre SL such is the ham fisted governance of the game and the clubs.
I'd love to see the figure that has been "pumped" into the game since the inception of SL to see what dramatic changes the RFL can put forward as offering a benefit to their governance.
As far as i can see it many clubs are still terribly run and either dangle over financial disaster or require earth bending figures of private money to compete, most clubs are no longer in ownership of their own grounds, the international game has gone so far in reverse it is practically out of view and the only people to have benfited are the players and the bods running the game.

While i respect peoples views on Saints Andrew and james.
I dont think we should let fiction overtake fact..
The clubs was bought debt free and any debt taken on was a business decision i am sure preditcated to produce profit.
Only a minimum amount of season ticket sales were sold prior to the takeover.
The stand developments was undertaken with r.f.l. loans and other director contributions.
We were told on numerus occasions of high atttendances record sponerships and even as late as last June the we were now stable and we should invest in season tickets !
all to be dashed our asperations of a progresive club that we had been fed on! exspose as smoke and mirrors !boardering on in my opinion criminal, all a traversy of lies and deceit.
We now have transparency?honesty and openess where does that stand with the statments coming out of the club Glover now working on newmarket is he??
Elston done a brillient job for which we would like to thank him?
Decimating the team by selling and then exspecting those remaining to fight every week with blood sweat and tears in the interest of balanceing the books will show in time if that is self defeating ..or that the income projected in sales merchandise and sponership. will suffer acordingly.
After all dont we buy season tickets with hope and excitement to see our team compeat and to do so every week.

We certainly do and if last season's season ticket holders all renew then we have a lot to look forward to, if not it's gonna be a long hard slog!

I couldn't have spelt it better if I tried!

Anybody putting mney into the club knows tha they wont get a return on it at least for a very long time so it will take somebody who is a fan of the club and willing to take a hit or someone with deep enough pockets to take a medium term loss. Unfortunately there aren't many of these people around.

I wonder if the club have approached Haribo? They appear to be flying at the moment?

I'm sure Agar would've already been on it if they were interested.