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| On another note also, McMeeken needs to tidy his discipline up. He?s currently the most penalised player in SL. I?m not for one doubting his qualities and standards which he has brought to us, but if I?m looking at that thinking ?well that?s giving us a lot of unwanted pressure? I?m pretty sure Wane will too especially against the Aussies.
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| Johnstone chasing down Qareqare won us the game. Had he not done it, Milnes would've had an easier kick.
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| PopTart:
Good as the break was from Tom, he had two players in support and couldn't find the pass. At his level, and especially if he wants to play for England, he needs to be able to do that.
Neither of those two players would have made it to the line and would have been chopped down by the chasing defenders. Cas actually did well to cover the support and I think in a derby they really did very well to defend that. Johnstone is already Englands first choice winger and played their last season in 2024. Only missing the game back end of season through injury. I think you?re mistaking the fact he chose not to pass and backed himself rather than he couldn?t find the pass. They are two very different things and we say him many times find that pass including last week vs Saints to Pratt. I?m pretty sure 260+ metres, Strong carries out the back, strong defence, chasing back 2 x breaks from opposite wing to stop scores in field and a break of 90 metres would be enough to retain an England spot. Focusing on the one pass that probably wouldn?t have ended in a try anyway imo is very harsh to say it is what will stop him getting into England squad. Toms contributions to the Cas game were valuable, without him chasing down opposite wing we wouldn?t have been in a position to win that. That?s the kind of plays that will help him retain his England spot in the ashes. We have some consistent top performers and one of them is Johnstone. There are plenty of these coming up that he will finish I?m sure.
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| Pat_Bateman:Trojan Horse:PopTart:
Good as the break was from Tom, he had two players in support and couldn't find the pass. At his level, and especially if he wants to play for England, he needs to be able to do that.
Neither of those two players would have made it to the line and would have been chopped down by the chasing defenders. Cas actually did well to cover the support and I think in a derby they really did very well to defend that. Johnstone is already Englands first choice winger and played their last season in 2024. Only missing the game back end of season through injury. I think you?re mistaking the fact he chose not to pass and backed himself rather than he couldn?t find the pass. They are two very different things and we say him many times find that pass including last week vs Saints to Pratt. I?m pretty sure 260+ metres, Strong carries out the back, strong defence, chasing back 2 x breaks from opposite wing to stop scores in field and a break of 90 metres would be enough to retain an England spot. Focusing on the one pass that probably wouldn?t have ended in a try anyway imo is very harsh to say it is what will stop him getting into England squad. Toms contributions to the Cas game were valuable, without him chasing down opposite wing we wouldn?t have been in a position to win that. That?s the kind of plays that will help him retain his England spot in the ashes. We have some consistent top performers and one of them is Johnstone. There are plenty of these coming up that he will finish I?m sure. Tom has a hell of a battle to get a starting birth on the wing. Dom Young, Joe Burgess, Tom Davies, Liam Marshall and even Ash Handley will all be in the mix. There's more to a game than just scoring tries, Tom does the 1%?s and effort based parts really really good. His chase backs for Qareqare tries effectively won us the game in the end. Not sure if he?ll play against the Aussies, but to say Johnstone effectively had no pre-season, is playing in a team currently that are offering him limited scoring opportunities, he?s playing very solid indeed. Exactly. Nobody said it would be easy but he has as good a chance as any of these listed. While there seems to be a bit of focus on a fantastic run where a pass may or may not have led to a try i personally like to look at the fact he was top metre maker, second post contact metres maker, second highest carries , 100% tackle made, helped regather possession from short drop out and chased down 2 try?s from opposite wing to save 4 points and keep us in it and that is international level performance again throughout a game. About the limited opportunities, now Max is back that should improve and if we can just find a way to get a 6 in or fill the gap at 6 with someone who can offer the hands we need to link between Lino and Max and share some kicking load we should see a drastic improvement in our attack. I watched Cats v Salford and Salford did not trouble them down the middle but when they passed the ball wide Catalans really struggled with Nikorima, Brierly etc and leaked yards. It?s important we target their edges and try and exploit them there based off what I saw. I?m not so sure we can do that with Pitts at 6. I?m very interested to see how Powell approaches this game. I do believe though that we should be beating a Catalans team whose points have mostly come from bottom 6 teams as opposed to our fixtures. I will be disappointed if we lose this game and any of our next 3/4 to be honest as I firmly believe we have the ability to beat them. It would be a dream to win these next few and be sitting top 4.
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| You said he was first choice. That's why people are discussing whether he is.
Hhere is no doubt he is a good winger.
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| PopTart:
You said he was first choice. That's why people are discussing whether he is.
Hhere is no doubt he is a good winger.
I mean he is though isn?t he more or less. Let?s look at the last 6 England international games. Tom played 3 x against Tonga end of 2023 as first choice winger for England. Then in 2024 the next England game Tom was again on the wing. That?s less than a year ago. Tom was then injured for the two games later end of 2024 but after playing 4 x in a row as the regular England winger it was only injury kept him out of those. Now he?s fit and firing he should be stepping back in id expect. That?s not unreasonable to expect at all. It may not happen of course but the way he?s playing it?s looking good for him.
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| Would you not say Dom Young is in front of him? Tom is certainly in contention.
All I'm saying is at that level there are fine margins that get you the spot and he'll do better if he can turn a break like that into a try. Hoy is a good player but he isn't getting within 50 players of a 1 spot in the team Tom will be playing against
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| Pat_Bateman:
On another note also, McMeeken needs to tidy his discipline up. He?s currently the most penalised player in SL. I?m not for one doubting his qualities and standards which he has brought to us, but if I?m looking at that thinking ?well that?s giving us a lot of unwanted pressure? I?m pretty sure Wane will too especially against the Aussies.
Yeah, he does a bit. Saying that, I'd love to know the stats of how many minutes he's averaging a game and then comparing it against other middles, because I can't see anyone being close who plays Prop. Obviously, when he's played long minutes, penalties creep in, so it goes hand in hand with playing him all match or most of it. I know he's playing a bit less than he was, but still. It's why we need to give Faatili more game time, he seems to be up to speed now after gradually building up his minutes since he arrived. Otherwise Mike will be shagged half way through the season.
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| PopTart:
Would you not say Dom Young is in front of him? Tom is certainly in contention.
All I'm saying is at that level there are fine margins that get you the spot and he'll do better if he can turn a break like that into a try. Hoy is a good player but he isn't getting within 50 players of a 1 spot in the team Tom will be playing against
I have no idea. I don?t watch NRL. But in the games Tom was fit for Tom he has been selected. There are fine margins but you not believe the fine margins such as chasing from opposite wing twice saving 4 points, retaining possession from drop outs are not plays worth of international level? I think they are. Those plays could be the difference to winning vs Australia as much as not passing which i still think watching it I?m not convinced we would have scored if he did. As for break the line or score try?s we saw it only last week vs Saints when he sent Pratt in with a cracking pass that he?s clearly got that in his locker to turn breaks into try?s. In fact it?s a rarity he fails to do so and maybe this was one of those times. In a tight game where Cas were well up for it though I think a few of them chasing back really was a top defensive effort from them. I don?t disagree with fine margins playing a part in being toe to toe with teams like Australia like you say but there were more than a few of those in this weeks game where Tom was involved in that he got right and they ultimately in the end did make the difference. I don?t know if he will get in. I hope he does as I will probably go to Wembley to watch but I won?t go if there?s no Trinity players playing. Pretty sure Mckmeeken will be a shoe in though. I?m not saying your wrong I just think there?s other moments that we are glossing over that mattered even more that are of international standard. Hey, at least we are in a position to talk about of a couple of players are in line for a starting shirt. How times have changed for the better.
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| You are saying the same as me about him, except if others are more consistent it will be noticed.
He is outstanding at recovering the ball at a drop out. Don't know whether Wane will use that tactic of course but it's invaluable to us.
I'm not criticising him as a player. He's one of our best.
But to be an International you need to pick up on those small things.
He's not alone. Ashton looks great but let Welsby out maneuver him to stop a try. They both need to pick up on those little things. It's the kind of thing Hall McGilivray and even Makinson did at their best. He has all the attributes, but needs to consistently do those small things.
Chasing back was one of the things that won us the game. But if Walmsley had been on that wing I'd have expected him to do the same. And I think he would.
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| Shifty Cat:Pat_Bateman:
On another note also, McMeeken needs to tidy his discipline up. He?s currently the most penalised player in SL. I?m not for one doubting his qualities and standards which he has brought to us, but if I?m looking at that thinking ?well that?s giving us a lot of unwanted pressure? I?m pretty sure Wane will too especially against the Aussies.
Yeah, he does a bit. Saying that, I'd love to know the stats of how many minutes he's averaging a game and then comparing it against other middles, because I can't see anyone being close who plays Prop. Obviously, when he's played long minutes, penalties creep in, so it goes hand in hand with playing him all match or most of it. I know he's playing a bit less than he was, but still. It's why we need to give Faatili more game time, he seems to be up to speed now after gradually building up his minutes since he arrived. Otherwise Mike will be shagged half way through the season. Think he must be averaging 60/70 minutes a game surely, whilst playing 3/4 full games. As a modern Prop that?s immense. Think I?ve said it before but Faatili needs to be doing 2 20 minute spells to give Mcmeeken a rest, like you say he?ll end up Cooked big time.
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