honest question; has the recent upturn in performances anything to do with agars departure or webster taking charge?

Definatly Agar. but no doubt Kinley will see it differently

I've just watched the Widnes home game from last season,sad really but I needed a rugby fix after today's game,we beat them 24.14.The rugby played that night was outstanding and after the game we were on 19 points,as we are on now,and in 9th position.I know personel have changed since but this was under RA,so why can players and the team perform like they did then and go into free fall like they have up to mid season this year with the same coach. ........by the way,the crowd looked very healthy compared to recent games and was on sky.....7500 was given out and to be honest looked about right with what we've been getting recently.

I agree Big Lads Mate, its a mystery but since he left the results speak for themselves

And the game i put on to cheer myself up is the 18-31 win, away against Hull KR in 2010.

Losing 18-6 at half time, 3 tries in 10 mins, the first 2 when down to 12 men with Broughy in the bin

pure magic

Both...Plus getting Tim Smith back onboard.
HTH.

Can't say i'm fussed whether we get the 8th spot or not, its just nice to not be getting beaten most weeks. The fact that a team who has been garbage for the cast majority of the season could make the play offs says more about the state of rugby league in this country than anything else.

Its a big ask and probably beyond us, but if it was achieved it would be a big bonus for the players' and the fans for the effort put in, in the second half of the season not only that but if it were possible it might generate more ST and get more stay away fans back as well as lifting the profile of the club and maybe help with recruitment for next season, and most of all it would be a lot sweeter if it was at the expense of Widnes, I can just see Cullen with that ventriloquist's dummy called eddie sat on his knee and that nugget Tez sat at his side stuttering through their excuses and the harsh treatment received from the referees' and how lucky we've been.

Sorry but I think you're arguing the wrong point. It's nothing to do with the state of the game though I tend to agree it's not great. It's basically a clash of ideologies. The play off system is clearly an Aussie invention designed to keep the season exciting and level up the playing field allowing lesser teams a chance to win the comp if you get a run on at the right time. I get the reasoning but it was never the British way where consistency across a season was what mattered though tbf RL has always played around with that concept far more than say football.

I don't see a problem but some (not you) who are elitist by nature don't like the play offs when the party gets gatecrashed by a lower team - they just don't get it - they basically want their cake and eat it. You'll see all the idiots on the VT banging on about how they don't believe a team that gate crashes the top 8 is worthy of being called Champions and the game is a mess. Yet this is exactly what the play offs are for and I'd love it if a non fancied team timed it just right. It' stye same mentality that suggest Wakefield have only ever won awful games against injury riddled teams who played badly and were walloped by the ref.

Personally I'm more traditional like yourself but slowly the play off system is starting to add some end of season intensity to the games. And should another team do what we nearly did in 2004 I think SL will finally have cracked it - though the elitist bleating from Leeds , Warrington and Saints fans will be louder than ever as their god given right to win is removed.

The elitist bleating from the fans of the top teams about it's finishing top that counts never gets heard when they win the big trophy from 3rd or 5th or whatever. It usually only ever comes out when they win the hubcap but don't make the final. Wigan are champs at that, being all purist about finishing top, but the same ones are probably waffling on about being double winners last year.

I like the play-offs, Personally, I thought the top six was the best format, but next year might be more interesting (I haven't looked at the format too closely, as I was too busy working out which championship clubs we'd be playing and how!).

Its not that i'm against the play offs, far from it. But i remain a believer that teams that finish in the bottom half of the table shouldn't be qualifying for a play off series for a chance to win the comp. Top six would be a better format and maybe next years convoluted structure with a top 4 play off will actually achieve the aim that a team should earn the right to compete for a title over the entire season rather than just be able to put one decent run of a few games together at some point and sneak in. Others may disagree with my opinion on it and prefer to ensure more teams have more meaningful games come the end of the season and thats fair enough and i take their point. But a look at the table says there are 6 decent, consistent teams, plus Catalans who are a very good team at home and will always be competive because of that advantage. And then theres the rest. So for me whoever finishes in that 8th spot is only really the best of this seasons crap teams, which isn't much to shout about to me.

Again I get your point but not sure I agree.

Surely that last bit is dependent on how close in points the last 4 are. Also you're in danger of falling into the trap regarding perceived form. So say one team starts season like a house on fire and then slip down the league to say 6th. Then you get a team that starts poorly but gets a run on and finishes say 7th and 1 win behind the 6th place team. So which of those teams is crap. Most people would say the 7th placed team but IMHO that's flawed. They are perceived to have done better because they got their wins at the start of the season and have remained in the top 8 throughout. Yet in real terms they have only won one more game and have not played well for month.

My question to you is why are they any more deserving of a crack at the final than the other team. They haven't been more consistent, just more consistent at a more opportune time - hence the top 8 rectifies this anomaly.

That's how I see it.

I agree Vasty

One reason the Aussies brought their playoff in was to balance the "bye" round, which also applies to the on the road games or the Magic weekend. It isn't an absolute Home and Away level playing field so the playoff gives the chance for the team that finished 2 points behind their rival, but lost to say Wigan at Magic, to show they are as good as the other who beat say London at Magic. They got a free two points which the play off gives them in some part the chance to rectify

The biggest point to me though is that the title is decided on the last day.
I remember going to Widnes back in the day when they played Wigan in the league and the winner effectively won the title, just because of the way the fixtures landed. Was a great game and packed crowd. But equally Wigan went through a stage where they won the title a few games before the last one, which made the rest boring and poorly attended.

The Grand Final makes the Wigan v Widnes scenario happen every time. Much more exciting imo.

Lastly, and probably most important to the likes of MC. Extra gate receipts for the extra games in the playoffs are always vauable to the teams in 7 and 8.