FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > Thank you Mr Applegarth |
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 21020 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
41119.jpg A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha:41119.jpg |
Moderator
|
| Quote: The Avenger "The worry is that it’s Carter for the last 3 years or more and Applegarth who’ve made this years signings which have been misguided and pretty poor. So if it’s the same two making decisions and 18/19 signings for next season then it’s very worrying on two fronts.
Firstly, they’ve proven to be poor judges of player suitability and have been happy to settle for cheap less than average options.
Secondly, if Applegarth is choosing next years players it strongly indicates that he’ll be the coach again next year
I’m fully aware that we need to have some players signed up for next year but if we’re going to run with a core squad of 22/23 then 18/19 players signed up leaves little room for a real change of playing personnel and having the same coach as well is disheartening to say the least.
Surely if we’re going to change the head coach then you must leave a big part of the player budget for that new coach to choose his players and shape the squad the way he wants it.
Everything is pointing to same again next year'"
I don't disagree, but who should do it then?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 4130 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2007 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2024 | Apr 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
34595_1297504122.jpg [color=#BF0000:1qi6asc8]WAKEFIELD FANS ARE BORN, NOT MANUFACTURED.WE DO NOT CHOOSE, WE ARE CHOSEN. THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND NEED NO EXPLANATION. THOSE WHO DONT, DONT MATTER.[/color:1qi6asc8]
[color=#0000FF:1qi6asc8]I AM THE SEEKER OF TRUTH AND
JUSTICE[/color:1qi6asc8]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_34595.jpg |
|
| Quote: PopTart "I don't disagree, but who should do it then?'" the coach should recommend to the board the type of player he wants and how he fits into his system. The board should always reply with, before we do anything is he better than we have got. We've not try to build or restructure the side properly for about 6 years snd nobody as been able to identify what we have needed and just gone here you go do your best with that lot
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 5074 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2014 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
72289_1398805144.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_72289.jpg |
|
| Quote: PopTart "I don't disagree, but who should do it then?'"
Well before I start, Applegarth shouldn’t be there at all and he should have been replaced months ago!
Carter is and never was a good judge of players, you can’t tell him that though so we’ve ended up with him talking to agents and signing poor players on inflated salaries. We should have had an experienced man in charge of recruitment, call him a Director of Rugby if you want, but someone who has the knowledge, understanding to make highly informed decisions and stature to command respect from agents and players alike. That’s a universal and fundamental prerequisite IMO and we haven’t had that for around a decade.
Also, whatever’s holding up the change of ownership should have been sorted weeks ago, then we could have had the two previously mentioned issues sorted with the right people in place to sort next season out.
However, none of that happened and here we are!
What would I do in the situation were in right now?
The Coaching position needs advertising, let Applegarth apply if he wants but judge him against the other applicants.
I know that means we wouldn’t have a coach insitu and therefore no one to offer direction re player recruitment and retention.
It’s not beyond imagination that the current owners and the potential new owners could agree on and appoint a Director of Rugby who’s acceptable to both parties even before a take over gets completed. Then let that individual get on with the job of recruitment while leaving some room for squad changes once the Coach for next year is in place.
That’s a better route forward, is a more professional approach, would be more effective and is certainly more palatable to the fans than seeing Carter and Applegarth do it again.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 21020 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
41119.jpg A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha:41119.jpg |
Moderator
|
| I think that's the point being made.
We can all say in hindsight what shouldn't happen. Some will say they told us all along it shouldn't happen.
I was one of the first to say sacking Poching and appointing Applegarth was a big mistake.
But advertising doesn't solve the problem if no one good applies.
I don't like blind leaps of faith with untried coaches. It has to be someone better.
That applies to DoR as well as coach. If Ellis brings in a mate with no experience then we'll fail again.
When Poching was appointed we got a very low level of applicant. I guess only money will change that.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 4130 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2007 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2024 | Apr 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
34595_1297504122.jpg [color=#BF0000:1qi6asc8]WAKEFIELD FANS ARE BORN, NOT MANUFACTURED.WE DO NOT CHOOSE, WE ARE CHOSEN. THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND NEED NO EXPLANATION. THOSE WHO DONT, DONT MATTER.[/color:1qi6asc8]
[color=#0000FF:1qi6asc8]I AM THE SEEKER OF TRUTH AND
JUSTICE[/color:1qi6asc8]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_34595.jpg |
|
| Quote: PopTart "I think that's the point being made.
We can all say in hindsight what shouldn't happen. Some will say they told us all along it shouldn't happen.
I was one of the first to say sacking Poching and appointing Applegarth was a big mistake.
But advertising doesn't solve the problem if no one good applies.
I don't like blind leaps of faith with untried coaches. It has to be someone better.
That applies to DoR as well as coach. If Ellis brings in a mate with no experience then we'll fail again.
When Poching was appointed we got a very low level of applicant. I guess only money will change that.'" I honestly don't think there is any need for expenditure on a DOR. If a good coach is appointed he will identify was is needed to build a side, if the resources are there then he's half a chance
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 11899 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2010 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
White Backgrounds/Statler.gif :White Backgrounds/Statler.gif |
|
| We’ve already wasted money on keeping Lino, Kay, Pitts and Ashurst who has been a non existent captain for next year.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 5074 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2014 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
72289_1398805144.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_72289.jpg |
|
| Quote: PopTart "I think that's the point being made.
We can all say in hindsight what shouldn't happen. Some will say they told us all along it shouldn't happen.
I was one of the first to say sacking Poching and appointing Applegarth was a big mistake.
But advertising doesn't solve the problem if no one good applies.
I don't like blind leaps of faith with untried coaches. It has to be someone better.
That applies to DoR as well as coach. If Ellis brings in a mate with no experience then we'll fail again.
When Poching was appointed we got a very low level of applicant. I guess only money will change that.'"
Well I certainly pointed out that removing Poching was a mistake and when Applegarth was mooted as a replacement (without advertising the position) I made my opinion heard on that along with a breakdown of why he wasn’t good enough. I also voiced opinion on some of the new recruits and have been proven right there also. No hindsight here!
Who applied for the job when Poching was appointed, how do we know whether it was low level or not other than what Carter or Minards said. Even if it was low level there are many elements that will decide who applies for a coaching position, who’s free at the time and whether they think it’s the right time to move their families etc but to not even test the waters and ask for applications is quite simply ridiculous in professional sport. There are just 26 top tier coaching positions available in the world for Senior Rugby League Coaches, I refuse to believe that we wouldn’t have found a more suitable candidate than MA. By all means use Applegarth as a caretaker while you field the applications but to not advertise and just appoint an untried, unqualified and inexperienced coach is stupid!
I suspect the owners just went for Chester’s assistant and got a decent Coach in Poching but then didn’t back him against some of the players who didn’t like him. It’s their modus operandi isn’t it, go for the cheap in house option and after Willie Applegarth was even cheaper and had made his intentions known to them by offering himself up behind Poching’s back.
We’ve had a string of poor decision making from giving Chester a new contract, sacking Poching, not advertising the Coaching position, appointing Applegarth, then not making a decision to remove him early in the season when changes would have made a difference.
But you and others have asked what would you do now and I’ve given you an answer, speculating that the new owner might appoint a mate to discredit that answer is poor. The owners/new owners should realise by now that the cheap unprofessional option and way of doing things doesn’t work! Do it properly, advertise the positions of DoR, Head Coach etc and appoint people who are expert in their field and bring the right qualities to the job and the club.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 17980 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
simpsons/simp006.gif :simpsons/simp006.gif |
|
| Quote: PopTart "I think that's the point being made.
We can all say in hindsight what shouldn't happen. Some will say they told us all along it shouldn't happen.
I was one of the first to say sacking Poching and appointing Applegarth was a big mistake.
But advertising doesn't solve the problem if no one good applies.
I don't like blind leaps of faith with untried coaches. It has to be someone better.
That applies to DoR as well as coach. If Ellis brings in a mate with no experience then we'll fail again.
When Poching was appointed we got a very low level of applicant. I guess only money will change that.'"
If you dont advertise and go with "the next in line" how do you know who is out there
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 21020 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
41119.jpg A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha:41119.jpg |
Moderator
|
| Quote: wrencat1873 "If you dont advertise and go with "the next in line" how do you know who is out there'"
Do advertise, but not the next in line. I'd wait for the right one.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 21020 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
41119.jpg A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha:41119.jpg |
Moderator
|
| Quote: The Avenger "Well I certainly pointed out that removing Poching was a mistake and when Applegarth was mooted as a replacement (without advertising the position) I made my opinion heard on that along with a breakdown of why he wasn’t good enough. I also voiced opinion on some of the new recruits and have been proven right there also. No hindsight here!
Who applied for the job when Poching was appointed, how do we know whether it was low level or not other than what Carter or Minards said. Even if it was low level there are many elements that will decide who applies for a coaching position, who’s free at the time and whether they think it’s the right time to move their families etc but to not even test the waters and ask for applications is quite simply ridiculous in professional sport. There are just 26 top tier coaching positions available in the world for Senior Rugby League Coaches, I refuse to believe that we wouldn’t have found a more suitable candidate than MA. By all means use Applegarth as a caretaker while you field the applications but to not advertise and just appoint an untried, unqualified and inexperienced coach is stupid!
I suspect the owners just went for Chester’s assistant and got a decent Coach in Poching but then didn’t back him against some of the players who didn’t like him. It’s their modus operandi isn’t it, go for the cheap in house option and after Willie Applegarth was even cheaper and had made his intentions known to them by offering himself up behind Poching’s back.
We’ve had a string of poor decision making from giving Chester a new contract, sacking Poching, not advertising the Coaching position, appointing Applegarth, then not making a decision to remove him early in the season when changes would have made a difference.
But you and others have asked what would you do now and I’ve given you an answer, speculating that the new owner might appoint a mate to discredit that answer is poor. The owners/new owners should realise by now that the cheap unprofessional option and way of doing things doesn’t work! Do it properly, advertise the positions of DoR, Head Coach etc and appoint people who are expert in their field and bring the right qualities to the job and the club.'"
You did indeed say all that early on.
I'm not sure I understood your next step idea. I wasn't trying to discredit anything, just pointing out that the DoR needs to be a quality appointment as well
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 21020 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
41119.jpg A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha:41119.jpg |
Moderator
|
| Quote: MOPSEY LIVES ON "I honestly don't think there is any need for expenditure on a DOR. If a good coach is appointed he will identify was is needed to build a side, if the resources are there then he's half a chance'"
Doesn't that go against what you said two posts higher?
Coach recommends, board or specifically DoR decides if resources are available.
There is a need for that role. Contracts and negotiations need to be separate to coaching otherwise it takes time away from actual coaching.
I don't think the DoR should be sole decision maker on team. I didn't think that was what Carter was doing but either way the coach has to choose. Some may be knocked back but they shouldn't have anyone they didn't choose.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 5074 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2014 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
72289_1398805144.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_72289.jpg |
|
| Quote: PopTart "You did indeed say all that early on.
I'm not sure I understood your next step idea. I wasn't trying to discredit anything, just pointing out that the DoR needs to be a quality appointment as well'"
Fair enough but that’s why you follow a professional process, advertise, interview, wait for the right candidate, appoint someone who brings something to your club who can improve everyone around them
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 5258 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2014 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
Black Backgrounds/Sam%20the%20Eagle.gif :Black Backgrounds/Sam%20the%20Eagle.gif |
|
| Quote: Scarlet Pimpernell "It was the coach who gave the interview, it was nothing to do with MC. It appears you are getting a little too protective of our director of rugby.'"
Did I miss your correction?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 21020 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
41119.jpg A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha:41119.jpg |
Moderator
|
| Quote: Scarlet Pimpernell "Did I miss your correction?'"
Are you arguing with yourself now?
If you meant Mash then I misunderstood which 'they' you were having a go at. I was talking about Carter as others are talking about Carter's interview where he takes responsibility.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 2125 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2011 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
56034_1356885742.png [b:19e3zrpk]DONT TOUCH THE WATCH[/b:19e3zrpk]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_56034.png |
|
| I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Apppegarth needs to take a reasonable chunk of responsibility for our performances and subsequent relegation. We have had a record amount of nillings and poor performances throughout the year, yet still had ample opportunities to save the year. Getting pumped by Cas at home was unforgivable. Seeing the same old mistakes yet same old faces playing who simply shouldn’t of been. I have nothing personal against Mash and do believe he is a good young coach, but he simply shouldn’t of gone for this job, we needed an experienced coach who may have been in these waters before. Mash obviously thought he was up to the job and has failed miserably.
|
|
|
|
|
|