Hospitality is very important in the new mordern stadia sure mc has put it on list of must have,s

I fully understand what you have written I just don't agree with you and it not belt and braces which suggests making sure everything is covered you clearly state several times of doing parts, adding bits later, which I say is not workable, as for comparing the present situation with the excellent work done at Featherstone they were not adding to a dilapidated stadium they were enhancing an already neat and fit for purpose stadium. The main stand is way better than anything at Belle Vue, the Post Office Road terrace was a bit naff when I last visited when they were putting a bit of the seaside in so they may have dealt with that by now.

The only acceptable building at Belle Vue is Cats Bar but that is too small to offer decent returns in hospitality and bar revenue and the facilities for the players is in need of some help lacking in space for changing, physio, medical staff and other ancillary support staff and it is better replaced by something fit for purpose.

Whether its done as phased build and the club stay at Belle Vue (as Widnes did) or they decamp elsewhere and getting done in one off new build if they are to remain at Belle Vue new all the way through (except the pitch that can stay) is the only answer


My career is Health & Safety not an interest, Worked with two Yorkshire RL clubs, three in Lancashire, one RU club in the North East along with a number of football clubs mainly lower leagues Worked with three SAG teams and planners.


I do not misunderstand what you are saying but you referring several times to doing bits and adding stuff later, claiming that two very dilapidated areas can be made safe and comfortable they can't believe they can't. You are allowed an opinion as am I as it is I disagree with most of your thoughts and I wonder where you get your information claiming that you are correct with costings! Not even out to tender so costs nowhere near being known, maybe you're thinking about a proposed budget. Please accept that others may have different views and if they do try and avoid pointless attempts at belittling others that do not share your view its not 'misunderstanding' it's difference.

Quote: vastman "It’s also the cheapest option. I do have a good knowledge of redeveloping stadia and getting BV to minimum standards would be pretty low. Just an example. Basic new East stand with bars and bogs to hold say 3k at about 1.75 million. Extend cats bar right across the end to house all facilities. Base level changing rooms and offices with maybe 8 boxes on second level and a small terace at the front maybe about 1 million if volunteers did the internals aka Fev. The existing bit holds the restaurant, reception and shop. North stand reprofile terracing maybe 750k again keep existing roof. Maybe put seats on the upper section if it’s plaisible. East terrace reprofile terrace and rebuild back wall and add a propper TV press box. Add a roof at a later date. About 1 million. Add 500k for infrastructure and 3 million for the land. That’s 7.5 million for a much better stadium which is dirts cheap. It can be further improved over time. It will never be the pride and joy of SL but it won’t shame it either. It will be fit for purpose and personally I’ll take that. The club is saved, the council has a community stadium of sorts, RFL happy. That by my estimate is half the cost of a NM stadium and could easily be done in a close seaon if we could stop playing at home in late August and restart mid March (depend on the winter weather) that how I see it. Obviously 15 million would get you the full deal at BV but that seems even less likely to happen imo.'" on your calculations have you accounted for removal of the nasties that will no doubt be present ie asbestos, I was told even the tarmac behind the flats can't be recycled and he told me he quoted for removal of the flats was 1/2 million just to clear the ground, So lets take this a little further, you can see by this photo of this structure at the Millmoor ground .https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+M ... -1.3702465 the skeleton of the stand, its a basic canter lever stand that then enables the view without stanchions at the front, also it makes its own corridor that fans can make their way to the stand and facilities with in it. now take your quote and imagine setting up your own company with the skills to complete the task in hand, I know where there is possibly a building coming up for rent with overhead crane spot on that could do this, now I might not be up on stadium builds but I do know that the skeleton build for the west stand like the one in the photos wouldn't take much more than a few months to knock together and could you imagine the saving on a self build

Quote: vastman "It’s also the cheapest option. I do have a good knowledge of redeveloping stadia and getting BV to minimum standards would be pretty low. Just an example. Basic new East stand with bars and bogs to hold say 3k at about 1.75 million. Extend cats bar right across the end to house all facilities. Base level changing rooms and offices with maybe 8 boxes on second level and a small terace at the front maybe about 1 million if volunteers did the internals aka Fev. The existing bit holds the restaurant, reception and shop. North stand reprofile terracing maybe 750k again keep existing roof. Maybe put seats on the upper section if it’s plaisible. East terrace reprofile terrace and rebuild back wall and add a propper TV press box. Add a roof at a later date. About 1 million. Add 500k for infrastructure and 3 million for the land. That’s 7.5 million for a much better stadium which is dirts cheap. It can be further improved over time. It will never be the pride and joy of SL but it won’t shame it either. It will be fit for purpose and personally I’ll take that. The club is saved, the council has a community stadium of sorts, RFL happy. That by my estimate is half the cost of a NM stadium and could easily be done in a close seaon if we could stop playing at home in late August and restart mid March (depend on the winter weather) that how I see it. Obviously 15 million would get you the full deal at BV but that seems even less likely to happen imo.'" on your calculations have you accounted for removal of the nasties that will no doubt be present ie asbestos, I was told even the tarmac behind the flats can't be recycled and he told me he quoted for removal of the flats was 1/2 million just to clear the ground, So lets take this a little further, you can see by this photo of this structure at the Millmoor ground .https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+M ... -1.3702465 the skeleton of the stand, its a basic canter lever stand that then enables the view without stanchions at the front, also it makes its own corridor that fans can make their way to the stand and facilities with in it. now take your quote and imagine setting up your own company with the skills to complete the task in hand, I know where there is possibly a building coming up for rent with overhead crane spot on that could do this, now I might not be up on stadium builds but I do know that the skeleton build for the west stand like the one in the photos wouldn't take much more than a few months to knock together and could you imagine the saving on a self build

well my body might not be up to the riggers of putting it together but I could over see the structure no problems, I'm sure Mr Brown would know some contacts who helped before for the ground works,

we could have both the east and west stands looking similar and with boxes too, north stand is going to be the one that's difficult to do.

if the clubs interested you know where I am

www.rlnews.co.uk/wakefield-chair ... scussions/

www.rlnews.co.uk/wakefield-chair ... scussions/

The North stand banking has to be taken away to pitch level in order to have a complete new start, it also releases more currently unused land behind the stand, up to the perimeter wall. Covered standing area with commercial facilities (bars, eateries, shop, offices, rooms for hire etc) underneath would bring in enhanced income streams both on match and non match days. (My understanding is that the North stand banking is too unstable for major development).

The north stand cannot be developed as it is that’s true however it doesn’t have to be got rid of either - it can have the terracing reinstated and made good - I have actually been told the cost of this from someone whose quoted on it though tbh that was a bit back. Sadly if money were tight the north terrace other than a tidy up would be the bottom of my list.

Ps I believe the nort stand was underpinned in the late 1990, sand further remedial work has taken place since. How relevant that is to now I’m not sure.

Tidy up!!! The north terrace, go and have a look at the patchwork that has been carried out regularly over the years to keep it usable both the standing blocks and what they are laid on are the problem and it is called 'past there best'. I doubt that there has been any underpinning, no doubt you are thinking of the installation of the new crush/surge barriers at the start of Wakefields SL era.


The club and it's volunteers have kept the stadium open through hard work and inventiveness at some point that becomes impractical and you have to stop. 'Tidy up' just another sticking plaster over a problem and it is not the answer and will not meet any legal requirements.

As many have said the East stand is a priority, work could even begin with the stand as it is intact ala Anfield's main but on a much smaller scale. Next would be the Western Terrace which should be a pitch length new simple concrete terrace with a new roof and would be changed back to the home section only. I've heard of a collaspe at somepoint on the concrete on the north terrace so it would likely be better to level it and start again. Crush what concrete that can be refused as a base for new structures and bury contam at depth or pay for the off siting of it, cheaper in the first option but will still need specialist contractors who aren't cheap. The hospitality would be last.

I assume if/when the rumoured freehold buy back is done,it will be for the whole site rather than just the rugby ground. If so there is always the option to nudge the ground east 10m or so to give a larger footprint for the western terrace.

Wow aren’t you the expert despite not explaining where your depth of knowledge comes from. I’ve already told you when it was done though I never pretended to know the exact level but hey you know it all so who the hell am I, someone who’s just sleep walked through the last 30 years.

Tidy up is just an expression by the way, stop being such a pedant it’s always the first sign of someone losing the debate.

You’re welcome to your opinion which seems to be all it is, I’ll stick with what I know. Have a nice day, that’s just an expression in case you’re wondering.

I am just responding to your comments, the underpinning is not correct it was the installation of crush/surge barriers a very different procedure to underpinning. I have challenged your use of the phrase 'tidy up' as a poor response to a very dilapidated section and is not suitable for repair nor a tidy up, rebuild/redevelop is the answer

Health and Safety is my career not an interest I have worked with several RL clubs on both sides of the Pennines, one RU club in the North East, and several lower league football. I have also worked with three SAG teams and planners.


We are all entitled to an opinion often base on facts we are also allowed to challenge other peoples views and comments, your defensive responses to any challenge to someone not agreeing with you is noticeable.

Your last sentence kindly teliing me that I am entitled to an opinion which you quite rightly point out thats what it is, my opinion based on information from other sources, are you suggesting that what you are saying is all fact and not an opinion or do you believe your opinion is better than mine or the others that you have taken to task.

It seems to me that as you both have expertise and interest in a subject we all want to know about it would be better swapping ideas rather than scoring points.
You could both be valuable if the changes ever happen
Just my opinion though.

Who gave you permission to have an opinion PT????

All this talk of tidying up and make do and mend, whilst interesting, is letting YC and WMDC off the hook massively! If I recall correctly, the SoS ordered that in return for a massive chunk of land being taken out of green belt, that YCP were to provide a fit for purpose modern stadium for community use, with WT as the anchor tenant - when did that get downgraded to a group of volunteers installing second hand steel and a lick of paint?

If we get anything less than what was promised, we've been had - and anyone who accepts that is complicit in the chicanery of YCP, WMDC and SRW.