My question is... Will there ever be another 'scene' which not only brings about a new style of music, but also influences the whole culture of its time; fashion, lifestyle, leisure, graphic design, drugs, etc? For me, rave and acid house was the last true scene of its kind. You could maybe fight Britpop's corner but it was really just a 1990s re-hash of what had already been; guitar bands, Harrington jackets, Mod haircuts etc.

I think Grime could be categorised as a 'scene' - such that it started underground, spread by word of mouth, produced some genuine superstars, influenced popular culture in allsorts of ways, caused a bit of moral panic, and has now gone mainstream, as such movements always do; my son, on seeing Stormzy duet with Ed Sheeran at the Brits, text me to say, "The day that Grime died..."

I wonder if as you get older, this stuff happens off your radar, and matters much less, so it passes you by; whereas whatever 'scene' happened when you were in your salad days, always feels more real and meaningful and important?

Youth scenes will always occur but each will be ever less relevant or important.

Two reasons imho.

One, today's modern corporations don't fight they embrace. They have brilliantly learned to take any youth culture and refine and repackage it at an astonishing rate. Very few youth movemts are genuine for long but now you have to wonder with some whether they were ever genuine at all!

Secondly rebellion or lack of. Who exactly are most kids rebelling against. When most parents want to be your mate and teachers seem younger than their pupils where is the conflict that creates great music. When many kids are sexually wise and active at 14 where is the teenage angst. Then there is booze, drugs and porn - hard to be idealistic against that backdrop.

My parents differed hugely from me they were almost Victorian and mine were far from the worst. My dad in particular had no u derstanding of the modern world, he was a cap doffer bless him because he was born in 1932.

I try to put up boundaries with my kids and set some kind of example which is better than nowt imho. However the differences in attitude and beliefs between me and my kids is small mainly bits of detail.

Asically my generation could shock my parents, my kids couldn't shock me without betraying there own beliefs.
Thus all you get is very niche and short lived youth movements.

It up to you if you think that's good or bad.

Missing the match this weekend - off to London to see Jim Bob from Carter USM do a solo show at Shepherds Bush empire. Usually a storming live show even if he is on his acoustic guitar these days rather than the full electric show of old.

I wouldn't disagree with most of that - but I guess the relevance and importance bit is based more on distance and perspective; if you're a kid, and you're right in the thick of a 'movement' as an active participant - and it affects and moves you directly - then it is entirely relevant and important. If you're an old fart who's had his or her day, and you're only awareness of a youth movement is watching it from a distance and not really being bothered either way - because you have a sore back and a mortgage to worry about - then it looks irrelevant and trivial. Couple that with the constant cycle of believing that music was better in your day, and it's easy to convince yourself that everything that happens after that, is a pale imitation.

I do fully agree with you though on the way that these things are quickly seized on by modern corporates and monetised; and social media means that something 'underground' can be mainstream in a matter of days if it goes viral; so that phenomenon that we enjoyed, of feeling like you were in on something secret and new, is perhaps not the same for todays kids - no need for bootlegs and white labels any more, when you can just grab everything for free from out of the air at the same time that everyone else does. Doesn't feel quite so special to me - but maybe the cliquey feeling that we liked, has been replaced by being part of something that people all over the world are also liking at the same time?

All that said, there is some phenomenal new music around, and I still enjoy finding stuff based on recommends, word of mouth or (and I never thought I'd say this) streaming services recommending something based on what I'm listening to; I gave in and started using Spotify a year or so ago, and it's pointed me towards some great bands that I've subsequently bought, seen live etc etc.

Great thread this.
I'm just trying to think of the list of live acts I've seen. ...very different to most on here.

You could also add to your list is the big drop off of football violence that was because at the time, all the firms would end up at the same parties loved up on E and putting past grievances behind them.

In answer to your question, I think the world due to technology and how people communicate with each other, via facebook, ter, Instagram etc has changed the world forever,imo people have just changed for me at that age. Let's face it there wasn't that much different as far as how we lived in the world between the first summer of love and the second. Alright, computers started to pop up and games machines but that was about it imo

It would be hard to imagine in today's culture of instant information, 100 albums in your car, download an album at a press of a button, something similar could happen, but hey what do I know. I mean just thinking back to how it all gradually came about was sort of lucky. It took the likes of Detroit & Chicago DJ's kicking it all off over there, albeit not anything like as popular as it would eventually become in Britain. Before the likes of Danny Rampling, Paul Oakenfold Nicky Holloway and Johnny Walker went on holiday to Ibiza and experienced Amnesia House for the first time, Where DJ Alfredo was playing this mix of US Hard house and Italian dance tunes. They came back home and then wanted to recreate what they experienced on holiday, which they did n about 88 at the now-famous Club called Shoom and that could be said to be the start.I know Hacienda gradually caught on but before that tey were playing bands on Factory Records every night until he really turned in a proper Dance Club After Shoom though, it all went a bit sideways with illegal raves because no Club would put them on under pressure from Councils et. So that's where the scene ended up going for the next year or so, underground. I know Hacienda gradually caught on, but before that, they were playing bands on Factory Records every night and running the Club on New Orders profits. Until Wilson really turned it in a proper Dance Club and when all the gangs and scumbags weren't there it was excellent place tbh but you had to go on a Saturdays because all gangs used to be in on Fridays, which I found out to my mistake, talk about bad buzz.

Then the excitement of going to an illegal rave was unreal at the time especially as a 15/16-year-old, who told his mum and dad he was stopping at his mates for the night, not meeting up at random service stations down the M62 in a Transit Van on a Saturday night because a mate had heard that's where everyone was to meet and then someone would have to ring a phone number that would tell them where it was all going down and then the Convoy would star. Through all these little quaint villages in the middle of nowhere then all of a sudden you'd see the lights because someone had got access to a barn or an old plane hanger.

Then the total overreaction and demonising by the government about it all at the time was surreal, probably like how the hippies in the 60's felt, bringing in the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act.

Also, say what you want but I remember Westgate around that time plus before and a few years after but between about 91-94 there were hardly any fights when Rooftops and Casanova's had cottoned on to the scene in about 91.

John Bramwell, tonight, Brudenell club, Leeds! Still tickets if anyone is a fan of his or I Am Kloot.

Your mention of the demonisation by the government reminds me of The Sex pistols and "God save the queen", the powers that be changed the rules at the time to avoid the Pistols getting to number one in the charts. Here's a quote from the Independent

Not only did the public have difficulty hearing the single, they also had trouble buying it. WH Smith, Woolworths and Boots refused to stock it. Many people bought it in Virgin's own stores. It came into the chart at No 10 and looked as though it would be at the top during jubilee week itself.


Anxious to avoid that, the authorities came to an instant decision: shops which sold their own records could not be included in the chart. Hence, Virgin's sales for the crucial week were ignored for the purposes of compiling the chart, and Rod Stewart stayed at No 1 with "I Don't Want To Talk About It".

One of my favourite venues, regularly travel down for gigs there. Yes the pizzas are good, so is the beer!

One of my favourite venues, reasonable prices, it's like watching a band in your local working mans club.

Quote: NEwildcat "I vaguely remember all that carry on, being a lot younger of course Well in this instance I'm happy to be that bit older. I've tried googling it but I can remember looking at a photo taken at W * Sm*ths window at the charts that week and there was a top 20 board but there were only nineteen places shown, the number two was left blank, they were that pathetic that they didn't even show the Pistols in the charts at all! If I can possibly find a photo I'll post it. PS. Found it. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=God+s ... jrA1OKf5YM:

Quote: NEwildcat "I vaguely remember all that carry on, being a lot younger of course Well in this instance I'm happy to be that bit older. I've tried googling it but I can remember looking at a photo taken at W * Sm*ths window at the charts that week and there was a top 20 board but there were only nineteen places shown, the number two was left blank, they were that pathetic that they didn't even show the Pistols in the charts at all! If I can possibly find a photo I'll post it. PS. Found it. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=God+s ... jrA1OKf5YM: