FORUMS > Wakefield Trinity > John Kear |
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| If we got JK as the coach he would use the squad directly in front of him, which may stop the younger players getting in to the 1st team. He used the experienced players last time to keep us in superleague & I think he would do the same again.
But there are few coaches around who can get immediate results like JK did last time around.
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| Quote: westgaterunner "If we got JK as the coach he would use the squad directly in front of him, which may stop the younger players getting in to the 1st team. He used the experienced players last time to keep us in superleague & I think he would do the same again.
But there are few coaches around who can get immediate results like JK did last time around.'"
In Kears defence when he was here players like Walllshaw and Anakin and the rest were not really ready if we are honest.
We can only speculate as to whether Anakin and Wallshaw who were probably cream of the crop would have faired under him in the last few years. It's fair to say that the Academy winning team was a TEAM rather than a collection of young stars so I'd not have expected it to yield more than 2-3 SL players - It wasn't like the Leeds team that produced Burrows etc, they were virtually all SL bound no matter what as they were the best youngsters around at the time - we could never afford that.
What is for certain is that JK combined with Steve Ferres would have unearthed a number of hidden gems from numerous other clubs as well - why because they know the players and where they come from.
The easiest way to rectify Kears perceived weakness on the junior front is to force him to work closer with a recognised youth coach who prepares his players in a way they cannot be ignored.
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| Quote: vastman "In Kears defence when he was here players like Walllshaw and Anakin and the rest were not really ready if we are honest.
We can only speculate as to whether Anakin and Wallshaw who were probably cream of the crop would have faired under him in the last few years. It's fair to say that the Academy winning team was a TEAM rather than a collection of young stars so I'd not have expected it to yield more than 2-3 SL players
The easiest way to rectify Kears perceived weakness on the junior front is to force him to work closer with a recognised youth coach who prepares his players in a way they cannot be ignored.'"
Sorry vasty but the only thing you've got right here is the bit about Kears perceived weakness, when it came to that winning team he was clueless, besides Annakin and Walshaw there was Tom Harrington, Adam Slater, Adam Gledhill, Matty Wilde, Danny Cowling, Dale Morton, Cain Southerwood, I saw Harrington at Stanningley embarrass Callum Watkins he was that much better, and I saw those players at Cas destroy the much shouted about Cas youngsters including Clark, Milner, Holmes, and the like.
We had a recognised youth coach in Tony Drury one of the best there was who spent 3 years assisted by Rich Hampshire working to achieve their success, unfortunately John Kear was not interested in polishing these gifted youngsters into gems, only the finished article and that's why these lads were left to drift off along, thanks in the main to James Elston who also got rid of Tony as well, they were a collection of young individual stars who only needed taking forward a bit more but unfortunately it did not happen to the detriment of the club.
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| Cannot agree with that Chissitt.
Wildie had loads of opportunity at Wakefield and is now playing at the appropriate level, as are Morton, Cowling and Southernwood.
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| Quote: chissitt "Sorry vasty but the only thing you've got right here is the bit about Kears perceived weakness, when it came to that winning team he was clueless, besides Annakin and Walshaw there was Tom Harrington, Adam Slater, Adam Gledhill, Matty Wilde, Danny Cowling, Dale Morton, Cain Southerwood, I saw Harrington at Stanningley embarrass Callum Watkins he was that much better, and I saw those players at Cas destroy the much shouted about Cas youngsters including Clark, Milner, Holmes, and the like.
We had a recognised youth coach in Tony Drury one of the best there was who spent 3 years assisted by Rich Hampshire working to achieve their success, unfortunately John Kear was not interested in polishing these gifted youngsters into gems, only the finished article and that's why these lads were left to drift off along, thanks in the main to James Elston who also got rid of Tony as well, they were a collection of young individual stars who only needed taking forward a bit more but unfortunately it did not happen to the detriment of the club.'"
No I haven't got it wrong because that's more or less what I said.
It is a perceived weakness because some would argue that Kears use of seasoned players is correct - Kear for a start.
You've hit the nail on the head with Drury and as you say that was Elston. Without correct management a Coach like water will always take the easiest route to suit him. There should have been structured and above all "Chaired" meetings regarding youth selection. Getting rid of your successful Youth coach sends out a poor message,
Again regarding these plays Tom Harrington, Adam Slater, Adam Gledhill, Matty Wilde, Danny Cowling, Dale Morton, Cain Southerwood - Sorry but Kear probably right in most cases, Wilde was never good enough and got plenty of chances as did Morton who is with Kear now isn't he?. The others probably deserved better but again were any ready in 2011? Gledhill and Elston between them pressed the self destruct button there if I recall. As for Southernwood I'm not having that one my friend you and I both know there was a huge attitude issue there even Mopsey states that.
This all goes back to the experience of the CEO. He has to enforce onto JK should he get the gig that long term youth development is paramount and he will be judged on it. Even in the murky world of RL that's possible. Worth noting that youth is always long term and as we are virtually starting from zero again this may take a while.
It really is a shame what happened to that team - but Kear has always been Kear and will remain so unsupervised which of course is why we have a BOD
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| It's ok worrying about the long term youth development but when it comes to it, the fans want to see a winning or at least competing team.
Kear could give us that.
No one would have saved Webster if he'd had a really good youth policy but still lost all the games.
I am an advocate of the youth at Wakefield and would love to see a team that we have developed ourselves, but that takes money, and right now, we need that money in the first team squad.
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| Quote: PopTart "It's ok worrying about the long term youth development but when it comes to it, the fans want to see a winning or at least competing team.
Kear could give us that.
No one would have saved Webster if he'd had a really good youth policy but still lost all the games.
I am an advocate of the youth at Wakefield and would love to see a team that we have developed ourselves, but that takes money, and right now, we need that money in the first team squad.'"
I agree, Kears youth policy or lack of is utterly irrelevant for now - we just need to survive short term, because if we don't there will be no Wakefield Academy.
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| Quote: milopolly "Cannot agree with that Chissitt.
Wildie had loads of opportunity at Wakefield and is now playing at the appropriate level, as are Morton, Cowling and Southernwood.'"
Fully agree with what you are saying, but you are missing the point here Tony Drury as an academy coach could only bring them up to a certain standard, from then on those players should have had more intense coaching which they never got due mainly to Elston and Kear showing no interest at all in them, classic example for you, Chris Annakin if he'd have been at Wigan or Saints or Wire academies, he'd be an international now, why! because he'd have had the proper coaching as would our other lads have had, and probably playing at a higher level than they currently are.
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| Quote: chissitt "Fully agree with what you are saying, but you are missing the point here Tony Drury as an academy coach could only bring them up to a certain standard, from then on those players should have had more intense coaching which they never got due mainly to Elston and Kear showing no interest at all in them, classic example for you, Chris Annakin if he'd have been at Wigan or Saints or Wire academies, he'd be an international now, why! because he'd have had the proper coaching as would our other lads have had, and probably playing at a higher level than they currently are.'"
Fully agree. It no coincidence the last two players that came from Trinity's academy who made a decent impact on the international side were Ellis and Westwood, both of which were given extended opportunities in their fledgling careers. Hold the kids back and they'll never develop.
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| Quote: Khlav Kalash "Fully agree. It no coincidence the last two players that came from Trinity's academy who made a decent impact on the international side were Ellis and Westwood, both of which were given extended opportunities in their fledgling careers. Hold the kids back and they'll never develop.'"
This was what was frustrating, it's not so much how good they are now but how good they could have been with the proper coaching after the academy, admittedly it might not have worked out for some, but there was plenty there to go at if the right attitude had been shown by the club bearing in mind that they beat all the fancied academy sides like Leeds, Cas, Warrington, and the mighty Wigan to win the league and the academy final, one final thought from me how good might Matty Wildie one name mentioned might have been with some specialist coaching along with Annakin which has to be the biggest joke of all when he can't even make the 19 never mind get a game.
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| The idea of Kear - much as everyone remembers the 5 drives and a kick - brings back memories also of numerous pivots - too many at times!
We had Drew / Brough / Rooney / Obst / Latu and we sometimes struggled to get organised because of the shear numbers.
I also remember that he had this very structured idea of left and right sides. One half back for each - which sometimes frustrated the halves as they often wanted a more flexible style of play.
People need to factor everything in when considering options for the job long term!
Oh, and I still think he was very good for us and thank him for all that he did!
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| Quote: chissitt "This was what was frustrating, it's not so much how good they are now but how good they could have been with the proper coaching after the academy, admittedly it might not have worked out for some, but there was plenty there to go at if the right attitude had been shown by the club bearing in mind that they beat all the fancied academy sides like Leeds, Cas, Warrington, and the mighty Wigan to win the league and the academy final, one final thought from me how good might Matty Wildie one name mentioned might have been with some specialist coaching along with Annakin which has to be the biggest joke of all when he can't even make the 19 never mind get a game.'"
Quite funny this, we are all frothing at the mouth as to whether JK is any good at youth development - a side issue for now. The reality is that he isn't the Coach yet and no credible source has said he will be. That means GULP Stu Dickinson is Head Coach! No disrespect but he's an unknown, I only hope that if he wins his first few games he doesn't land a three year deal
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| Bang on the money Vasty
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| Quote: vastman "Quite funny this, we are all frothing at the mouth as to whether JK is any good at youth development - a side issue for now. The reality is that he isn't the Coach yet and no credible source has said he will be. That means GULP Stu Dickinson is Head Coach! No disrespect but he's an unknown, I only hope that if he wins his first few games he doesn't land a three year deal'"
Indeed, the six expressions of interest will hopefully put paid to any notion that Dickens will get the job. Does anyone know if Gilmour has gone? I've seen nothing confirming or denying this, is he still the assistant?
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| Quote: vastman "Quite funny this, we are all frothing at the mouth as to whether JK is any good at youth development - a side issue for now. The reality is that he isn't the Coach yet and no credible source has said he will be. That means GULP Stu Dickinson is Head Coach! No disrespect but he's an unknown, I only hope that if he wins his first few games he doesn't land a three year deal'"
I for one would not have a problem with JK coming back in fact short term I would gladly welcome him, and as the Boyem said next season Kear upstairs with Morrison as coach, I'd be quite happy with that, in the meantime I'm happy to see Stu Dickens take charge till something's sorted, as regards to Kears knowledge of youth development or lack of it, as you rightly say atm it's a side issue and unimportant but all I have done is point out when it was mentioned that Kear took more credit than he deserved and the man deserving of it Tony Drury got very little.
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