[quote="Droopy":3kdjep53][youtube][/youtube]My point exactly, other than McMeeken, our other starting props are either unproven at SL or have a point to prove. It does worry me. I was disappointed when Bowden signed elsewhere because whilst he isn’t a world beater, he is robust and experienced enough to be a key part of the team. You then look at if one of our first 4 props is injured who steps up? Bain and Vangana are both inexperienced and probably a little lightweight. Storton, probably would be my preference to step up but isn’t a natural prop. So I go back to my previous post, even though it wouldn’t be an exciting or inspiring signing, an experienced and robust SL prop is needed in my opinion.[/quote:3kdjep53] Doesn’t even need to be SL imho. A fringe player or an ambitious young championship player would do fine for me. So long as the attitude is right and they are robust, that would be fine. Bit like a Rodwell, but a U.K. version, won’t be as good but still decent. Saw a few tough lads last year who’d do ok without ever being first choice.

I guess out Champ pickup project is Jayden Myers. I didn’t see any standout props last year. I saw some really good hardworking Championship props (Roman Dixon for Dewsbury - signed for Fax, Lambert Belmas at Toulouse, Titus Gwaze at Sheffield) but they all have their limits

[*][quote="Butcher":at4di76n]I take your point, but I can’t remember Wigan rotating through many props. Byrne, Thompson, Havard, Dupree, Hill, and Cooper for a handful of games before he got injured. They have Eseh, Makin, and Chan too but I can’t remember any of them playing for Wigan last year. As Trojan often says, we should only sign players who would improve our squad. We’ve got Atoni, McMeeken, Rodwell, Uele, Vagana, Bain, Shaw. Now Chris Hill would certainly improve our squad for a year - his play the ball speed and wrestle is still up there with the best - but that would probably prevent Bain and Shaw getting game time. Singleton? I honestly don’t think he’s as good a player as our first five options. Runs and tackles hard but makes some poor decisions both sides of the ball. What is propping? Hate (love) to bring it up again, but as I see it in the modern game there’s no difference between a prop and a loose forward. I understand that 30 years ago a loose was a dynamic, hardworking, ball handling forward. And 10 years ago a loose became a prop but with good hands who organised other forwards. But now (with a few exceptions like Oledzski and Walmsley) 8,10 and 13 have the same skillset. No SL team should have a prop who can’t set up a play or tip the ball out the back accurately. If Cozza, Bain, or Pitts plays prop, and Rodwell or McMeeken plays 13, you wouldn’t notice apart from at kickoffs. Here for the debate![/quote:at4di76n] You forgot Mago, Ellis and Walters too. In a salary capped sport to have 11 players who can play prop in your squad was seen as very unusual. Byrne, Dupree and Mago were dropped for significant periods and Cooper injured for most of the season. I think teams carry props that are more middles these days but there are still out and out props out there and most teams carry at least 1 or 2. Uele and Atoni are Props, not middles. Fafita was a prop, Singleton and Hill are props not middles. I’d say a middle is capable of bigger minutes but lacks the impact of a prop. They are also usually more mobile. Ball playing and more importantly decision making is also key certainly the latter which tends to be the difference between a prop and a middle along with a minimum of 60 mins consistently week in week out. Beyond 2025 I hope that Rodwell takes the 13 shirt as I think that is his best position, but for that to happen we would need to recruit props/middles in the next off season.

[quote="Trojan Horse":20rw5qrd]I thought Doro was poor. He ran hard but made zero post contact metres and got folded in the tackle. He won’t be SL ready for a couple years but I don’t rate him despite the media hype. Surprisingly, there was a forward who played us a few times for different teams out on loan. Had a good pair of hands too. Think it was Sammy Kibula.[/quote:20rw5qrd] I didn't think Kibula was anything special, even in the Championship. Struggled to get games in a poor Cas side.

Spot on with Mago, that was an oversight. Might be wrong but don’t think Walters lined up at prop (he was open about not wanting to do that like he did at Leeds). All good points, but why couldn’t Uele or Atoni be middles, apart from the fact they rarely stand at first receiver?

[quote="imwakefieldtillidie":15ak6ae6]I didn't think Kibula was anything special, even in the Championship. Struggled to get games in a poor Cas side.[/quote:15ak6ae6] He’s woeful! Big body and capable of some eye catching plays but lazy and heart the size of a pea, his lack of athleticism particularly his movement laterally makes him very easy to read in attack and a massive target in defence. He was the big lad that dominated games in the Academy because he was physically superior but once he stepped up he looked totally lost and anonymous.