Sorry I meant Arona instead of Westerman, I think I had Westerman on the brain from earlier on in a post. Fifita has made over 70m against Leeds and over 100m against Wigan. He averaged about 11m in gains against Leeds and 7m against Wigan. Arona didn’t make much metres against Leeds but we didn’t have much possession when he was on. Against Wigan Arona was over 100m with an 8.20m average gain. In fairness Kelepi made over 100m against Wigan too. No other forwards got near the 100m mark though and I think Wigan had 4 forwards who got over the 100m and the other forwards got over the gain line.


We did better as a collective against Leeds in the forwards but we got bullied by a younger Wigan team. It’s not just the metre making though it’s the intensity they ran with and the hits they managed to put on us. They constantly played the ball quicker too and won the wrestle. I think the likes of Fifita, Arona, Tanginoa (even though he’s been quiet) have been doing their job in yardage but the other forwards need to put their hands up. Defensively we look shaky as a unit, last week we weren’t even moving off the line after the first 40 and were giving Wigan an easy 5/10m before contact.

I think Westerman has been only forward offering any lines for the half backs too as he did a lot last year. Miller often gets criticised for his hospital passes but I’ve noticed that Ashurst is picking the wrong line a lot and coming back on the inside into trouble. There was one last week where if he continued on the straight he would have hit a gap but for whatever reason he came back on the inside and got crunched.

It might just be me but I think there seems to be some forwards who are shirking responsibility and leaving it to others to do the tough carries and work in defence. I think there is definitely an over reliance on our wingers to get yardage. I’d like to see the big units put their hand up more when we are trapped in our own 10/20 on the 3rd/4th tackle.

What a great post that is! You said exactly what the issue is with Ashurst too. He drives me absolutely barmy and was doing the same last season. His lines are consistently poor. The one vs Wigan I saw too and it wasn’t just a gap he run away from (into players infield) but there was a huge overlap on our wide had he checked or changed his line to a more direct or out wide line. I was fuming but this is something that has annoyed me on Ashurst for a few seasons. He is a busy player and he does run lines but they are often the wrong ones and generally taking the ball into traffic instead of making space for our edges. Pitts is similar though, how many times did he drive it in in front of posts or in the middle trying to batter his way through an organised defence? It’s not lack of effort for me but it’s lack of smarts for the most part.

I agree with what you both say about Ashurst but Pitts is slightly different.
The ones I remember him going in field was to set up a play not to barter his way through.

Thanks Trojan!

It’s a real shame with Ashurst. He’s one of my favourite players and rated him in his Saints/Salford days. He’s still a decent player but he definitely picks out some poor lines now. It’s strange as I’d say that was his greatest asset in attack. I think it’s too easy for fans to blame Miller sometimes. Don’t get me wrong Milky does throw some shockers but more often than not it’s the back rower running the wrong line. It’s frustrating as you expect better from your senior pros. No one should really have to tell them which lines to pick, by now it should just be natural.

It’s really annoying and sad to see at the minute as we appear to be at a crossroads. I think our defence and intensity has always been a bit suspect. However, we used to have a great attacking style to counteract that.

I’m a big believer in coaches, conditioners, squads etc having a shelf life and I think that’s where we are at now. Hopefully we can hang on this year and look at a total rebuild. Unfortunately we are stuck with what we have this year. I can only see 1/2 players coming in and there maybe a change in coach of Chester decides he’s had enough.

In my opinion we just seem stale in every department at the moment.

Stale is a understatement

Good post, steady though people will accuse you of being me just like poor old FC



Anyway as I noted on another thread I'm baffled and don't really have a theory.

However, what you say is pretty much where I am. It's ok people blaming Josh Wood or Bill or Lino but the truth is these players can only be at their best when playing behind a competitive pack and not just for 50 mins but for the full 80.

The pack is soft but frustratingly it's not always the same culprits at the same time. I can't pin down any real villains. You could argue that Green and Tangata arent making yards but they were never likely to, these are straight up and down players, nothing fancy and it goes on.

as you say it's the collective and the most important collective is the pack.

Ashurst is the perfect example and I noticed it post Covid 2020. Why is he not playing his natural game? Sure he did used to cop some unfortunate passes from Miller but that's part of the game. It can't be a lack of bravery as now he seems to hunt out big players to clobber him.

It's like many of the pack is refusing to play their natural games. Odd and Ill say it again I'm baffled because if anyone seriously thinks that's what Chester is telling them to do needs their bumps feeling.

I’ve been accused of and called worse things so I’ll take being called a Vastman pseudonym



Yeah, I can’t quite fathom it all out to be honest. The last time we worked as a collective was after the Daily Star drama. In 2021 we seem to have reverted back to where were last year before those 3 wins.

I think there are individuals you can pick out and I’d say we are weak in the front row. However, like you say they don’t all have a drop in performance at once. I honestly feel like we are seeing the breakdown of aging players. Most of them are only 31/32 which doesn’t sound that old but when you look at the number of injuries they have had I feel like that may have brought the aging process on a bit earlier. If you know what I mean?

My biggest criticism of Chester at the moment is him picking players out of position when we do have alternatives. Playing both J.Wood/Crowther is stunting our attack as both do the same job really in that they tighten up defence. Randell used to do the same job but his passing from the floor was good and he did know when to run and get a quick roll on. With Kyle Wood out I can’t see why we don’t give Harry Bowes a whirl from the bench. He his a hooker after all and if we are worried about his defence why not just bring him on for a 25/30 min period with his main instruction being to get the team moving forward with more urgency.

As you say though it’s all just speculation and theories on our part. Just frustrating to watch at the moment

It looks like I was almost right....quote from Chester in today's Wakey Express "Mason has trained for 2 weeks with that oblique (abdominal) issue and I think that is still giving him some hassle".
Hopefully he can shake it off soon and we will then see him being more creative ??

Surely the ashurst dilemma all stems from poor attacking structures which are too easily read by defensive structures which isn’t helped by often ponderous play the balls .Not that ashurst has a thing about running into brick walls ,as there is only one winner in the long term on your body, he’s already suffered with disc problems over the recent seasons so can’t see him doing that willingly week in week out. Our best attacking structures recently were in the Randall era ,we've really missed not only his tackling in the heat of the battle but the scoots from dummy half, half the reason why K woods was affective in the second period was down to him IMO.Very early days yet for our half backs to get any kind of consistency but we need these to be firing behind a pack going forwards and you may hopefully again see the likes of ashurst and kelepi running out wide into holes instead of brick walls . So far our tries have been mostly individual and opportunistic tries not from set plays or moves ,as you can tell by our ineffectiveness near the opposition goal line we still have a lot of work to do in the set play department and the clocks ticking .

Fair points. I suppose it's fair to say that the 2 Woods have barely played together yet, so maybe that partnership will form. At the moment Josh and Jordy are not different enough.

Kettykat you are bang on about Randel he was the best 9 we have had since Sam Obse (will get shot down for that or the ,spellings of is second name lol) Same as a lot of our players he was rushed back after injury ,not quite fit ,got a bad tackle making the first injury into long term.This was down to poor decision by our coaching staff ..Let's hope this is some thing that will not happen this season under the new coaching staff .It's going to be a hard long season as it is ,with out playing players half fit