Well pointed out Vastman . What the hell is winger supposed to do when there is an overlap, Come in and take the man with the ball? Fine if he manages it. If not looks a fool, Stay on his wing and let centre or whoever to stroll in? Can’t win . The problem is created infield where tackles are missed , a ball slipped by a prop who is attracting two or more players or players are not sliding across etc.

Yep, it's not rocket science yet it seems to be too some on here.

Where defence is concerned, that is and always had been the job of the forwards. I accept that the backs now play a bigger part than they used to but the ball gets out wide too quickly when the forwards are not doing their jobs.

Ditto making yards, especially from on our own line, is also the forward's job. I don't care how big our backs are including Joe, I don't want to see them wearing themselves out running the ball all day long, occasionally yes but all the time no!

At the end of the day, it's about sharing the effort. Nobody expects Fifita to run in two lengths of the field tries, so why do we expect the backs to run the hard yards and do so much defending!

Fifita, Green etc are not expected to run great distances or make loads of last-ditch cover tackle, that is not their job. What they are expected to do is cart that ball up hard and straight and tackle anything that moves. They work in increments of 10 meters, Tom Johnstone works in increments of 100 meters. TJ is doing his 100 meters, too many of our forwards are not even getting close to 1 meter in some cases.

Ditto tackling, Dave in particular put in some dreadfully weak attempted tackles in but he wasn't alone.

I say again our forwards have gone soft, certainly our big men with the exception of Arona and occasionally Westerman. Some just about do enough and some don't.

The one great hope I have for our pack is that Battye will show the way. Not the biggest or the most gifted but he can play and above all he gets into the opposition. I can only hope his attitude eventually rubs off and where he goes others will follow.

The forwards lost us the game, the forwards lose most games in truth but in fairness, they win most games also.

Think Mr Chester and Co should watch the Panthers v Storm game to learn how to defend wide out .No players rushing out of line, eyes on the ball , and the defence moving side ways like a machine .And all done with out panic and at a slow pace

Fair comment apart from the Fifita dig. If DF was poor then the rest were worse (check the stats).

Yes because the players in the middle have done their job!

The backs won't rush out of the line if the defence has moved as one. There is nothing special about the NRL wide players you refer to, they would panic just as much if they were caught out 2 on 1 every set of 6.

You seriously don't think Chester knows that? It is not Chesters job to teach players the basics of the game, the middle players know what they have to do or they shouldn't be SL players and when they don't the results are that we are exposed out wide.

Why people bash the backs every time we are beaten out wide is beyond me. Occasionally it's the winger or centres fault but far more often it's poor defending in the middle. It's those players who should be getting the grief IMHO.

He was poor in his first stint and missed an incredibly easy tackle that let in a try. What you have to remember is that DF is our highest-paid player and with that comes a responsibility to play above the norm. More money less leeway I'm afraid.

In the same way superstar, TJ can't afford many mistakes in the backline the same applies to Dave. Relative to his ability Dave had a poor game,

My point is TJ did the special things we expect from him, DF simply didn't regardless of stats.

That's not to say DF should be dropped, he wasn't that bad but he wasn't the Dave we need or the one we had 2 years ago. We need Dave back ASAP, he's vital that's why we pay him so much, stats alone don't cover that IMHO.

He's also far from alone, he just happens to be the top forward we have which is why I zeroed onto him.

Agree ,apart from it not the Coaches job to teach the players that .It is the Coaches job and should be done every day in training .What's the first thing a team improves at when a coach comes over here from OZZ the defence

That's my point, I'm 99.9% certain they do those drills week in week out, that is why CC and so many other SL coaches look dumbstruck when the players don't do it in the game, You can see the pain in CC face when it happens.

You can't each speed and athleticism as per TJ etc etc but you can teach defensive patterns and we do, I know we do. The failure to implement these basics fall totally at the feet of the players IMO, if they can then they shouldn't be taking money from the fans. More so than any other facet of the game.

However let's not get carried away, Saturday was hardly Dunkirk, it was a tight game that we could have won with a little bit more composure. Overall I was more pleased than displeased, especially for a first run out. There is no player I'd especially drop, perhaps Crowther back in the pack because personally, I don't think he's a hooker, no other reason. Lino will be a game into it which will help, I see him as a Finn type player so it will take a few games for him to find his feet.

I'm happy enough, we just need a bit more ticker in the middle, not suggesting that anyone is especially lacking it, it's more an attitude than anything else.

Vastman I agree we have both said ,with a bit more though in attack we should have won .Do we both agree we are short of a good prop ,and a 9 that can move us forward beside K Wood. At the end of the day it's a game we should have won ,and that's the difference between finishing in the top 8 and bottom 4

I don't think we are short of good props, I just don't think the ones we have are performing, most notably Dave who on his day is the best in SL. I think Battye will make a difference especially in attitude but he's not fit to play so we will have to wait.

I'll hold back on the no 9, I think we need more than one game before we can make too many judgements but K Wood is a miss. That said by the time josh came on we had lost momentum so it's a bit harsh to judge him, by that point, there were no runners.

So sorry but I don't agree with you, It's not more players we need it's the players we have who need to start performing again and that can't be judged at game one imho.

For what it’s worth I can’t understand why he left josh wood on the bench, he should have started, like has been said previously by the time he came on we had lost all momentum