Out of his depth is an understatement he cannot grasp the games speed and the players know this

Worrying because Wigan have more manipulative players than most.

Tomkins is long gone and O'Loughlin isn't playing, alas we've no-one to referee games anymore.

What a nonsense thread.
Have you never noticed how much better the referees manage the TV games when you watch as a neutral. Yes mistakes are made but very rarely howlers and never anything that could be construed as being biased or dishonest.
There is a management team on the field whose job it is to create a safe and fair environment for players to display their skills and they face opposition from fans players and some managers.
Why don't we break the mould and ensure that Belle Vue is a place that welcomes the refereeing team and appreciates their efforts to manage the game for our benefits. We may even enjoy it more.

Yeah but it's not nonsense is it. Technically speaking I've no issue, the games got quicker and more complex than ever but some lack the strength of character to stand up to players, man-management in other words, a must for a Ref surely. Probably not their fault, to young, too inexperienced and poorly trained. I accept that but yo suggest there isn't an issue and dismiss it as nonsense is, well its nonsense.

Disagree.
First off, we cant do anything about who ref's our games so, we're better off just getting on with it.
Yes, Trinity have had some dodgy calls over the years, although not too many that match up to the try that Saints were disallowed last weekend and I possibly agree that our ref on Sunday isn't the best BUT, he will very likely be equally bad (or good) for both sides.

If you try standing/sitting with the opposition fans for either half, the will be complaining just as much as "we" do.

It's always easier to blame the ref, rather than our own players and he will probably make far fewer mistakes.

Think you’ve missed my point entirely, unusual for you tbf.

I’m not suggesting for a minute we are treated any better or worse than anyone else. Although I think we lack some of the ‘stronger’ characters some other teams have.

My point is far more basic. I don’t think the quality of the refs we are producing is good enough. As I state it’s probably not their fault but at the moment for me only Thaler seems to have the strength of personality to cope and even he has off days.

Am I wrong or do you think the system as it stands is good enough? You might though I doubt it but to say folk questioning certain refs are talking nonsense is grossly unfair imho, it’s a legitimate debate.

This particular ref I am yet to see have good game regardless of teams playing.

I'm fine with the refs.
Sometimes make mistakes but as said above, they seem to make less when you are a neutral.
Its a stacked deck against them with many making their mind up before anyone runs on the field.

If only it was just the refs eh

I think that the main thrust of the thread was that we would get "worse" calls, than Wigan, if this guy was the ref and it is this issue that I disagree with.
The "quality" of SL refs is a different issue altogether. Mind you, with some of the stick that they get, including death threats etc, how the hell are we supposed to encourage more/better refs into the game.
If you recall, a few seasons ago, Hicks was regarded as "soft" and not able to control games etc and although he made a serious error in the final (not going to the screen for a Saints try), on the whole, he's a pretty good ref.
The bottom line is that, just as players need some time to develop, the ref's also need some "bedding in" time.

I'll still be cursing the guy on Sunday when calls dont go our way but, they are all just trying to do their job to the best of their ability and we should all try and cut them some slack.

I'm fairly relaxed about which ref we get these days - because I don't recall a single one of our many losses that can be attributed to the referee; rather, it can be laid squarely at the door of our players and/or coaches.

At the same time, I do agree that some are better than others; that said, it's also the case that some players are better than others, and they tend to improve in a supportive environment, with experience and time - and the same is true of referees. I'd prefer if BV was a place they could come and feel certain that they won't hear chants about their onanism, or receive death threats from swivel-eyed nutjobs who can't control their emotions.